2011 DF150 Neutral Safety Switch Issue

[neptoon21tt]

I have a 2011 DF150TL which I purchased new, and for the last couple seasons I've been having what I'm sure is a neutral safety switch issue. If I shut the boat off I sometimes get that jolt to the heart that comes from no response after turning the key. NEVER a good feeling and you can't get used to it when you are adrift on a single engine vessel.

I jiggle the throttle control and it starts. Sometimes it takes more than 1 jiggle. It does NOT matter if I come into neutral from FWD or REV.

I know this matter has been discussed many times here and elsewere but I'm hoping still to get some help specific to my questions. The boat is not nearby, I drive over an hour to it so I'd like all the info I can get before my next trip up.

I thought I had good advice, adjust the NSS under the cowl. Then I read that my engine doesn't even have the switch under the cowl, that the only NSS on the '11 DFs is in the binnacle.

Can anyone confirm how many NSS's I have on the engine?
Do the switches in the binnacle go bad very often?
Are they hard or easy to replace?
If it has an engine side switch, is the adjustment easy?

Our Suzuki dealer who stored the boat over the winter was supposed to look this over but didn't, now it'd cost me a few hundred bucks just to have him go pick it up and look at it (that "breakdown" in communication is a matter I'd rather not discuss).

I had to replace the PTT switch already which I did myself, though it was a bit trickier than I thought it'd be. That happened during warranty and Suzuki wouldn't cover it, too bad Suzuki lacks in the customer service/tech support areas b/c the motors are great. But the fact they won't answer simple tech questions by phone irks me (Mercury tech support is happy to do so, I know I've called them many times on motors, props, etc).

THANKS, John

[artdf175]

John do yourself a favor and get the shop manual
It will walk you through step by step of any thing you will need to work on
You can find an online edition but you will want the book
This sight also has a search function but need to go to the advanced feature
Search neutral switch You should find a number of conversations on the subject
There are some good people on the forum and approve should be able to answer your specific question on the NSS
Art

[artdf175]

Should also ask are there any other electrical issues showing up when you experience this situation? Alarms? Other electronics showing momentary power outages?

[neptoon21tt]

Hi thanks for the reply, neither the motor nor the boat have any other issues of any kinds, electrical or otherwise.

I appreciate the wisdom of the shop manual, and maybe it's a good investment. But I don't really do service on the boat. I really can't do much myself besides change a prop and what I can do on board. We keep it in dry stack storage. When I need it, they put it in and take it out with the big forks. I don't even own a trailer for it.

I could get the cowl off and make an adjustment to the switch but that's about all I would do in the motor. Still not sure my DF150 has 1 or 2 NSS's.

Thanks
John

[missive]

nss

john: read your post, and I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to my 2003 Suzuki 115 df. my engine does have two nss's. one on the binnacle, and one where the throttle and shift cables go into the stbd. engine cowling. I worked 3 years on this problem, as I couldn't afford sending it to a marine mechanic.
as I am an old fart, I can't rememBer if it was the shift or throttle cable. ( I am almost positive it was the shift cable). right behind the knurled adjusting nut on the shift cable(inside the engine cowling on stbd side) is a round switch that when you pull the either throttle or binnacle shift lever back to neutral, , a lever pushes in a switch, which s a button, which, I causes juice to go to the starter motor, hence starting engine.take off the stbd. wing to get to this switch. the switch on my engine, if I recall , is right there...just have someone push and pull both cables at binnacle mount, and you will see the switch, and how the cable activates it. there is a main power lead running from this switch to , I think , the starter solenoid, and if not activated, engine will not start. when you find this switch, see if the button on switch is being pushed in by moving throttle and shift cables back and forth, and if not. turn the knurled nut on the bad cable so the the cable will engage the button on the switch, which may just be your culprit.
took me 3years to find this problem....sometimes engine would turn over , sometimes it wouldn't...hence , I never shut it down while fishing on boat for fear that it would not start again. good luck, and I hope I have nailed your problem. let me know!:

[missive]

john...just read your initial post again. my second nss is inside my binnacle mount. very easy and straightforward to get to. take off binnacle housing , then just follow wires in binnacle. my nss in binnacle is fed by either a purple or red wire, and contains a tiny red button on the switch. it is either pushed in or released from in or out position , as soon as you pull lever on binnacle back to neutral. just one wire in to switch , and one wire out of switch(same color). when your throttle/ gear lever is in "forward" position the nss cuts power off to your starter, hence no starting of engine in gear , by mistake. I have never had any issues with this nss, nor with other nss(excepting that the cable had to be adjusted to activate switch. very simple job to scope this switch out. if you wanted to , you can jump over this switch by splicing in a coupla inch wire , and disconnecting the nss completely.ps. - for safety sake, if you do the jumping, always re-wire exactly the same as when you started. this is a MAIN POWER WIRE AND SWITCH!!!! if you "jump" the switch, and the engine starts every time, then you have a bad nss. wish everything on a boat engine was as easy as this nss to trouble shoot!!!! I love , and sometimes hate , boats and engines!!!!!

[neptoon21tt]

Thanks, I think I will need to look at both soon. The binnacle if its just a matter of removing the black housing cover that's not an issue. Working on the motor is more of an issue, I don't have any work space. THough I can probably get under the cowl. The boat is in in-out dry stack storage and I don't have a place to work.

[neptoon21tt]

2011 df150 neutral safety switch

Alright I haven't gotten to take off the cowl yet, but there are new developments.

First of all this issue is becoming very regular now, where it was occasional before. Now it's like 3 of 4 times. And lightly jiggling the handle doesn't do it any longer, I have to PUT IT IN REVERSE then back to neutral. That seems to fix 100% of the time.

This clue based on what I am reading leads me to conclude (correct me if I am wrong) that the culprit IS the NSS under the cowl.

However I am very limited to what I can do, and whatever it is I have to do it while the boat is in the water - or- pay my marina their astronomical rate of $120 hr to fix this.

I am SURE I could do it, but I need to be prepared well. I hate to dumb this down but does anyone have a PICTURE that could show me that switch and possibly where the adjustment is, so next time I'm up at the lake I can just pull the cowl while standing on the transom and adjust? Tools needed to fix? I assume drivers and a 1/4" metric socket set would do it... but that's a blind guess.

THANKS ALL
John

[neptoon21tt]

One more fact, I am getting no audible codes of any kind if that helps.

I talked to the guys at Outboard Specialties today and they seem to believe it is one of the NSS's. I've read on this site that it could possibly be the shift position sensor which is easier to fix.

And to correct my earlier post, now that I know there are (2) NSS's and (1) shift position sensor involved.

Is it true that jiggling/moving the throttle handle, and the lack of any codes, points to the shift position sensor??

Guess I'm more confused than ever. The adjustment trick addresses what, the shift position or the NSS alignment under the cowl?

THANKS

[Solarman]

I think I would suspect the switch in the binnacle, as you mentioned someone told you it had only the one nss.
You also mentioned lightly jiggling the shifter helped in the past, well lightly jiggling the shifter would not move the shift cable enough to affect a switch at the motor, I believe. The URL I listed below also mentions that in the newer motors there is only the one nss, the one on the motor is a shift sensor. The shift sensor limits the RPMs to 3k, as if in neutral. Nothing to do with c cranking the engine.

I believe the nss in the binnacle will be your problem.

I also think you can look up the parts pic for your motor, and binnacle shifter at browns point marine (even order the nss) and print a pic of the parts page, for a little guidance. You can also look through the parts page (or call there number to ask for help locating the nss - if they lead you to binnacle pic, ask if there isn't one on the motor?). Good way to find if it has two.

This link below is an 06, Suzuki 250. If you google Suzuki df150 nss replacement, this is one page that pops up. You may be able to ask other questions/ info there?

Good luck, I would take a new switch next time you had to the boat, worst case (if wrong tools) you can plug the new switch in, push the button and see if motor starts normally. Take pics with phone to know how everything goes together, or if you need help, pics say many words.


http://www.justanswer.com/boat/8c30b...-recently.html

[Moonlighter]

I would agree with Solarman that the switch in the binnacle is the likely culprit.

My reasoning is because that is the switch that prevents the engine from starting if in gear, or even from cranking. Like you have experienced.

My understanding is that the one under the cowl doesn't prevent cranking or starting, it just prevents you revving the engine beyond about 3000 rpm when the engine is in neutral. Could be wrong but that is my understanding.

[neptoon21tt]

Thanks for the help. I'm still not sure if there's 1 or 2 switches. And thanks for clarifying the diff between the NSS and the shift position sensor. I learned that last night after my post.

I called my Suzuki dealer and Outboard Specialties, based on the s/n my engine is an '11 AND should have 2 switches. Hmmm.

I don't have an extra switch but I am heading up there now since it's the only nice day for the next several. I hope to at least get the cowl off and look around.

I think my Suzuki dealer is gonna pick it up Monday and fix it if I can't get it right.

[neptoon21tt]

update... looks like it's fixed, or will be fixed, soon

I pulled the cowl while tied to the dock yesterday and checked by the linkage, sure enough it looks like there is a neutral safety switch there... er, I guess, I can't really SEE the actual switch from the disadvantageous vantage I had. Based on the photo in one of the previous replies (thanks solarman) it must be there. I can see the wires running up into that funky bracket that for lack of a better description, looks a bit like a drum brake shoe. Since I could do nothing there I gave a quick squirt of some high grade CRC electrical contact cleaner and put the cowl back on, then with the motor off cycled the control FWD and REV a couple times to work it in.

Then I pulled the control box from the console and checked the switch there. For posterity sake, it's under the black plastic side cover and easy to get to once the box is out. In hindsight I tainted my experiment by ALSO cleaning that switch with contact cleaner, but once I jumped the binnacle switch (AND triple checked I was in neutral) the boat started repeatedly about 15 times in a row w/o issue for the first time in 2 seasons.

I put the old switch back in and expected the error to return. However it didn't. so cleaning ONE of the two switches definitely either helped a lot or fixed the issue.

Nevertheless I ordered a new switch today
SUZUKI 37721-95500 SWITCH ASSEMBLY NEUTRAL
and will either replace it immediately or have it on hand with tools to do so. I'm hoping that's the end of the issue, at least until I can have the Suzuki dealer confirm the other one is OK later this year when he gets the boat for the winter.

[neptoon21tt]

new switch ... and problem returned

Put in the new binnacle neutral safety switch and it started right up first try, every time. For about 6 or 8 starts. Then the issue came back.

Damn.

The intermittent nature of this is making it hard to pinpoint. When I jumped the binnacle switch last week it started consistently, I thought for sure that was it.

I can only guess at this: I think what happened was, that time I had gotten the shift cables lined up correctly just by sheer chance, and then jumping the front NSS was a red herring. Since I didn't move the shifter between test starts, my test didn't reflect typical normal conditions.

Doesn't matter if the motor is cold or hot, air temp, etc. Happens in all conditions. I've read other stories of people having misleading results testing this.

Is the switch bad, or is it alignment? What are the odds there are 2 issues at once?

I'm thinking have my Suzuki guy pull the boat (his hourly rate is pretty high), change the rear NSS (why not at this point?) and make sure it's aligned. If the problem persists beyond that, then... well, I hope and pray it doesn't. I definitely don't want one of those "ghost in the machine" problems that never gets fixed.

Bummer.

Thanks

[Solarman]

None of us ever wants those ghosts.

What are the chances your problem is the ignition switch itself?
But, then the wiggling of the binnacle lever shouldn't have fixed the problem in the beginning.
It's still possible there were more than the one problem? Do you have access to the wires from the key switch? Possibly there is an issue with the wire from the switch to the binnacle nss, corrosion, or loose inside the switch? Check that wire, if you can. I know you're limited with tools, but if you turn to start, and nothing happens, hold switch on ”start”, and move that wire around? If no difference, I'm thinking replace the NSS at motor, and if that fixes the problem, good.
If not, then try an ignition switch.

Maybe in the beginning it was the nss, but with so many attempts at starting, the switch ”start” contacts are wearing out?

Or, just change the ignition switch, before sending to the mechanic, you might be out that money, but if problem goes away, then no need for mechanic? It only requires a couple hand tools, and not hard to change.

Good luck. Post back if you find anything.