DF140 Water in Oil

[catacom225]

I have read a lot of past threads on oil cooler seals causing water to enter the oil,
Makes sence to start with the simple thing and then work your way up, as for the shale stuff, after pulling my 140 down 50% of all water jackets where full with this rock hard white substance, only way to clean it was an acid wash
Make shore you clean them properly as there are lots of small drain holes in them

[Egorena]

DF140 Water in Oil

Well, I came up with a theory! I read and article about finding cracks in an engine and there was a responder that mentioned his experience with hot spots, especially on aluminum blocks and heads. The jacket that was completely plugged up was the bottom cylinder. It sits on top of the oil pan on the engine holder. The water jacket is less than 1/8 of an inch from the oil pan. If that section gets really hot when I run in the higher rpm ranges, than this might be the problem. Remember, this engine ran with no problems for over a year and then it started with the water problem. I will have the block checked tomorrow and if that comes out fine, than I will have to assume the problem was all that debris in the lower water jackets. There are three jackets that could have leaked past the gasket under hot spot conditions. Well, we'll see. Thanx for the comments.

[WEDOCQ]

Oil cooler/ just an idea...

Egorena,
I have been following you post since day 1. A lot of people have mentioned the oil cooler, even though you said you have already gone thru it. Is it possible to disable the oil cooler just for the purposes of testing, to be sure that is not the problem? My original engine was a DF115 (same block), and it did not have an oil cooler. so what would be the harm to run for a while without it just to eliminate it as the culprit?

Thanks for keeping us all updated. It's very useful info!

-Shawn

[keakar]

Egorena,
I have been following you post since day 1. A lot of people have mentioned the oil cooler, even though you said you have already gone thru it. Is it possible to disable the oil cooler just for the purposes of testing, to be sure that is not the problem? My original engine was a DF115 (same block), and it did not have an oil cooler. so what would be the harm to run for a while without it just to eliminate it as the culprit?

Thanks for keeping us all updated. It's very useful info!

-Shawn

the difference is for an engine designed with the cooler it needs extra cooling from an outside source (the cooler) where yours made without the cooler had built in extra cooling chambers and passages within the motor to provide extra cooling. it should be fine for testing but i wouldnt recommend extended use without the cooler.

what he needs to do is seal and pressurise each part from the water pump top the engine holder to the block and eliminate each one as a possible cause.

look for loss of pressure or signs of leaks, if that doesnt show anything then do the same with air pressure and see if you find anything.

the way i see it, running the motor wont be a big help for you to find the leak since the water hose is going to give you all the pressure you need to find how water is getting into the oil.

[Egorena]

DF140 Water in Oil

Thank you gentlemen. Yes, I did isolate the oil cooler by bypassing the water lines. Presently, I took the block to a machine shop and had some exhaust collection chamber repair. There was some heavy pitting around the bolt/thread base area. They filled all that in by building up and machining. They also checked for warpage and found none. The head was checked by the machine shop and no problems found. I will now start putting this thing back together. I am more than convinced it was a hot spot issue. Had the hot spot been higher on the block, I would have gotten a temp alarm. This heat situation was on the bottom of #4 hairs away from the engine holder internal compartment. Let's see what happens after this mini overhaul?

[WEDOCQ]

Checking in

Egorena,
You haven't posted in a while. I was just checking in to see how things are going. I have been in a 9 month battle myself. I think I may have finally taken the upper hand. we shall see.
-Shawn

[Egorena]

DF 140 Water in Oil

Well! Let's see what happens. Just ran the engine for an hour and a half tied to the dock. Broke down the engine completely. Sent the block to the machine shop and had some pitting damage repaired to the exhaust outlet area where it couples to the holder. I had already had this done to the holder. New rings, inserts, gaskets and oil cooler. Had the head checked at machine shop and no cracks were found. As always, it ran like a clock. I am breaking it in and started at the dock. Checked for leaks, checked oil every fifteen minutes and ran a warm up for 15 minutes at 1,000. Picked it up to 1500 for fifteen minutes, 2,000 for fifteen, 2,100 for fifteen, brought it back down to 2,000 for the final thirty and started a 5 minute cool down at 1,000. No water in oil, but it never has at low rpm's. I will pick it up when I go run the boat in the bay. I did this preliminary at the dock because of my teachings in the heavy diesel marine engine break in practices. We would overhaul a Cat or GM or Cummings and check for leaks, coolants, and loose clamps. Once that was done, we would double or triple the moorings to the dock and put the engine in the corner for several hours. I put a heavier load on the engine by keeping it tied to the dock. Time to go fishing, I will keep you informed. Oh yes, not a single drop of water came out of the exhaust pipe next to the pee hole and the water pressure was at 8 lbs.

[WEDOCQ]

Egorena,
You haven't posted in a while and I am really hoping things all turned out ok for you!
-Shawn

[Egorena]

DF140 Water in Oil

OK! Verdict is in. Everything went well. I have come to the conclussion that overheating around the # 4 cylinder caused the water to leak into the oil pan. I conclude this to the time line of events. When I first overhauled the engine, no water in oil thru the break in period and shortly after. The shale that I found around the # 4 water jackets was completely around the bottom half of the water jacket. It had broken off the rest of the water jackets and come down to # 4. Evidently, I inspected the block back then and everything looked so perfect (the shale) in the water jacket that I washed, blew out with airpressure, but never thought of scraping with a scraper. Eviedently the previous owner never flushed this thing out properly. I scrapped everything out and it was amazing the amount I pulled out. I previouly mentioned that I had read an article on excessive expansion in hot spots on aluminum head and block engines. This condition would excessively pinched the gaskets involved and caused problems. I have thoght about this carefully and preclude that this is what transpired in my case. Oh yes, didn't catch a single Red last night. Had to run 11 miles by instrumentation (GPS) only. Fog was like pea soup. Made it back safely, thank you lord and thank you Standard Horizon.

[WEDOCQ]

Wahoo! I am so glad for you Egorena. Way to persevere!
-Shawn

[Egorena]

DF140 Water in Oil

Greetings everyone. All is well with this DF-140. No water in oil, running great, hasn't burn a drop of oil. Will be changing oil soon, running non detergent strait 40 weight. Will be going to a 10/40 after this. Thank you everyone for the advice, in my case, it was overheating in the #4 (lower) cylinder due to build up in the water jackets that broke loose. Need to see clean aluminum. Lesson learned!!!!

[boashna]

well I did not have your luck.. I learned that when you heat the saltwater to 180f by using a thermostat and cool the engine the salt will eat the cylinder head and makes lots of pits. water will enter the cylinder .head gasket was fine as it has plastic film protecting it . .
it took 650 hrs of engine time but it happen. you should always beware that taking an engine apart will break off bolts and it may even break the engine holder ($1000 retail) . your choices are as follow .. do a complete upper part over hull cost $6000 with a 30 day labor and one year parts warranty or put a new engine with 3 to 6 years of warranty depending on promotion for $11500 us dollar final after labor and tax.. if you are reading this you need lots of money . .c u