2004 DF225 - Weak Pee Stream

[chackett]

Hey All-

I've got a 2004 Johnson 225, which I understand is the same as the Suzuki DF225. It's been running great for several seasons. When I received the motor, I changed the plugs, changed the motor oil, changed the lower unit oil, the high and low pressure fuel filters, replaced the primer bulb, water seperator, spark plugs. I thnk I did just about everything except the VCT stuff and I didn't do the lower unit impeller.

Recently I decided it seemed to me like the telltale / pee stream was looking pretty weak. At idle, it barely dribbles out. The motor is super quiet and runs like a sewing machine. I've never gotten an alarm on it or had any type of overheat warnings.

Today I did the full impeller kit. New impeller, new plates and gaskets, new key, stainless cup, etc. There was only a small amount of rust on the cup and overall the old impeller looked pretty good.

When I was done, I dunked it and the pee stream / telltale didn't look any better. I revved the motor up to about 2k rpm and let it run for 30 - 60 seconds. Ran it in gear, ran it in neutral. Same results.

I really don't like the idea of just dropping it in, letting the motor warm up and then getting on plane and running for a while to see if it overheats.

Are there any good threads or posts on checking the water jackets, passages, etc.? I've see the descaler / vinegar flush .. but the motor has been in fresh water for three seasons, running probably 1-2 times per week for several years. For sure something could have come loose and gotten wedged in somewhere. I've pushed a small zip-tie into the outlet hole but it doesn't seem clogged or anything.

Does this motor have thermostats? I checked the diagrams and what I thought were thermostats are labeled as annode protection. Will removing those give limited access to the interior of the water jackets for further inspection?

Is there any method or potential damage to be done by using compressed air to try and clean the passages out?

Maybe there's nothing wrong and I'm just being paranoid.

Thanks!
Chris

[artdf175]

You probably didn't go far enough in with the small zip tie
back track the rubber per tube to the engine block.
it may be clogged on the inside of the nipple that hose fastens to.
Art

[chackett]

Thanks. I'll do some more investigating. On this motor there's barely any room to even look into the area where the nipple goes through the ceiling to find the tube that goes from the telltale to the engine block ..

I'll keep you posted.

Chris

[Solarman]

Chackett you might need to investigate/ clean/ replace the water by-pass valve. A lot of times, if sticking open, water pressure drops at pee tube, but still flows through to exhaust. Check parts or service manual to clean/ replace.

Good luck.

[chackett]

Chackett you might need to investigate/ clean/ replace the water by-pass valve. A lot of times, if sticking open, water pressure drops at pee tube, but still flows through to exhaust. Check parts or service manual to clean/ replace.

Good luck.

Thanks for this. Today I purchased a small bit of tubing to extend the pee tube out .. there's currently not a tube on it, just the nipple recessed into the cowling. I want to get that put on and then drop her in for a solid run and see how it goes.

Can you tell me any more about the water bypass valve? Where is it and how can I service it? I'll google around and see what I can find.

Thanks for the tip, I appreciate it.

Chris

[Murray]

https://www.selffixer.com/pdf/downlo...zpaqlcpt9pjrcx

If the absentee landlord allows the above link to go through all your questions will be answered

[Murray]

***, they let the above link through. It’s a genuine Suzuki service manual (pdf) for your engine, well worth the $10.99. I’ve purchased 2 service manuals from these people and there were no weird charges on the VISA.

[Murray]

The absentee landlord filtered out the word W o w and replaced it with 3 asterisks

[ECU1984]

Is the water by-pass valve the same thing that I have always heard referred to as the "poppet valve" ?

[chackett]

https://www.selffixer.com/pdf/downlo...zpaqlcpt9pjrcx

If the absentee landlord allows the above link to go through all your questions will be answered

Thanks! When I click the link I get an error / not found message. But I assume I can browse that site and locate the Johnson / Evinrude 2004 4 stroke 225 service manual? It's showing it to be $15.95. Or should I get the one for the Suzuki same model year?

I went today and removed a few of the anodes and looked at them. They were surprising more corroded than I expected, considering I've only run the motor in fresh water for the last 2 seasons (that's well over 100 trips). I expected all that fresh water to have flushed things out better than it has. I guess I'll replace all the anodes, inspect the water routing hoses and perform the trashcan vinegar flush procedure. I guess I'll replace the thermostats while I'm in there.

Is there a way to tell if I have part number 5033721 or 5033722 without removing it and looking? The parts diagram lists 5033721 with an annotation of (60.c) which I assume is the temperature rating, and 5033722 with a (71.c) notation and (optional). I assume I want the thermostat rated at 60 (part number 5033721).

*EDIT after Googling the Thermostat situation* Sounds like there is some debate about which temperature thermostat to use with arguments about unburnt fuel contaminating the lube oil. I live in Atlanta and boat on Lake Lanier which gets pretty darn warm in the summer, so I'll stick with the 60-degree thermostat. Unless a smart person here convinces me otherwise Which is entirely possible.

Thanks, everyone, I appreciate the help.

Chris

[Murray]

I’d probably go with the Johnson manual if available, if not then the Suzuki manual. Interesting note on the anodes, my 2009 DF90A, fresh water, 180 hours had a light coat of oxidation that a wire brush cleaned up with 4 swipes. Poppet valve on my engine is located on the middle unit, starboard side, two bolts holding the cover on, assuming yours will be similar.

[chackett]

I’d probably go with the Johnson manual if available, if not then the Suzuki manual. Interesting note on the anodes, my 2009 DF90A, fresh water, 180 hours had a light coat of oxidation that a wire brush cleaned up with 4 swipes. Poppet valve on my engine is located on the middle unit, starboard side, two bolts holding the cover on, assuming yours will be similar.

Thanks! I'm not familiar with the poppet valve, what it's for, how to replace it, etc. Something for me to research.

In the interest of full disclosure, I figure I should share my "fail" on this project. Nothing major, but I now have to "re-do" the impeller job.

I completed the impeller job and took the boat to the ramp, dunked it and cranked it up. Pee stream was still weak. Maybe worse. What the heck?

Doing more reading and youtubing videos about flushing or cleaning water jackets / heads / etc., I learn about a pretty interesting technique where you drop the lower unit and then basically use a small pond pump or similar to push water through the passages through the pickup tube. I happen to have several pumps and tubing, so it was relatively easy to get this set up.

When I dropped the lower unit, it provided an opportunity to see inside the housing of the impeller, and I can see that a gasget is all tangled up and shredded inside the impeller housing. It's the gasget that looks a little like a "cage"

So I disassemble the impeller housing and discover the stainless cup the impeller rides in is not installed. What the heck?

What I learned here is that when I'm working on something like this, I really need to be careful about letting people "help" me. I was doing this job at my boat yard and several neighbors came along to see what I was doing and offer some help. Very nice of them, and I appreciate it, but it clearly distracted me enough that I just totally forgot to install the new stainless cup. The only thing I can figure is that somehow my new stainless cup got put in a place where I thought it was the old one, and I threw it away and just totally forgot to install it.

Fortunately no real damage done. The impeller from the new kit was not damaged, so I've ordered a new gasget and stainless cup and we'll give it another try when it arrives Passages are flushed and cleaned, anodes are all new, and thermostats are new (I removed them while I did the flush)

Thanks!
Chris