Twin 2013 DF 140 diagnostic dilemma both start won't run more than 10 seconds...

[redlowrey]

If you couldn't hear the pump running, logic would tell you to check power and grounds before you went any where near the vsts

[briscoe]

The first thing thst comes to mind... did you add fuel to the engine before your trip. You say it started and warmed up, both engines went to full throttle (4K rpm) and then it died. Did you accidently add diesel fuel?
Gasoline and diesel will separate also. Just a thought. I dont know...

[dlbstarlane]

Out of town but back at boat Tuesday...
briscoe No, no diesel...same gas source/same delivery method by me to both this boat and my flats boat.
@redlowrey... I had gas delivery both port and starboard but unable to run above idle or dies when advanced. Last 2 days port motor no sound from pump, no fuel at all delivered to high pressure hose at fuel rail...flushed fresh gas again from portable tank through bulb/low pressure filter, low pressure pump, removed high pressure filter and flushed water/gas out with new gas...connected but won't fire. Have power at hp pump clip...so pulled that manifold and VST, then had to leave town.

New HP filters/manifold gaskets/gauze filter/plugs and high pressure pump on order.

Q: Should I clean VST/filter/float inspection with clean new gas or a commercial carb/injector cleaner? I will replace the gauze filter and HP filter, test the old HP pump again and pull/inspect plugs then put it all back together again.

On the starboard side, starts and idles fine but dies after a few minutes. Before I left I was able to advance throttle to 2000 for the first time and it does the same -- runs fine for a couple of minutes, then poodles down and stops. Mostly it will die as soon as I advance in N past idle. Some on the portable tank. I'm going to replace the HP filter with a new one and retry. If that doesn't work, I guess the VST on that side is next step --

Thanks in advance for everyone's thoughts.

[briscoe]

I've heard that the drain tube off the bottom of the VST can be used as a point to spray cleaner into into unit. It still may mean removing the silencer. I had some crap in the screen of my VST, when my boat was new caused by ethanol and something inside the gas tank. It plugged up my injectors. It was taken car of by warranty. But I didn't discover VST issue till some yrs later. Mucking with the VST is a 3 wrench job (out of 5). There's a lot to take off for access and inside one side of VST is fuel pump, wiring all sealed up and has a seal that has to be fit in place, just so. I would recommend... If a person used the drain hose and turned it upward he could fill that side of VST with carb cleaner several times. I think with the small tube attachment the carb cleaner pressure may be effective.
Just to clarify, did you check your injectors?

[dlbstarlane]

Hello all,

First thanks for all your comments and expert thoughts on my situation. I do apprecitate it and have learned a lot from them and from reading other threads here.

But let's not bury the lede.

I've been back and working on the boat since tuesday (5 days) and to day around 5pm EDT here in Key West, I connected the water hose, checked for leaks (none) and then said a quick prayer, hooked up each engine to a portable tank with fresh fuel (and Stabile 360 additive) and fired them up one after the other -- both engines ran like new at idle, 2000 rpm/300 rpm, and at randomly selected places between.

Hallelulja!

So, from the onset of failure, it seemed (according to the useful though and decision rule call "Occam's Razor)") that the simplest logica explanation for two 2013 reliable motors stopping at the same time without warning would be a massive fuel contamination event.

This seems to be the case:

I had a service pump out the tank and polish the fuel, then I replaced all the low pressure filters (canister and on engine); Blew out/inspected all the fuel lines from the tank to the engine LP (lift pump) -- seemed unlikely that two separate tank tubes/lines and filter sets would fail at the same time, except for both gulping bad fuel.

This trip I concentrated on contamination of the high pressure system: replaced both HP filters (although I was able to pump fuel easily through the old filters, but the did have water/contamination), removed both manifolds to clean the VST tanks, and the small 'gauze' filters at the bottom of each HP fuel pump. I replaced the port side HP fuel pump as that engine would not fire at all, and made no noise on power up. Starboard supplied some fuel to the rail but seems low.

So cleaned both VSTs and new filters, checked the floats. Reinstalled both VSTs and manifolds (and the 1000 water tubes that Suzuki seems to need, all cut to within 1 inch of their run -- ugh), cleaned both injector rails and all the injectors.

So I am not sure if one specific issue caused this (other than fuel contamination) except for the dead HP pump (which died during the repair process sometime, at the beginning both engines would start but die out with any throttle opening...)

So, I think I need to pump and check my tank again -- the fuel (which is not more than 4 months old) is the color of an amber ale, and it seems cloudy. I saw a bunch of "jelly like" goo all throughout the system, and if pumped into a bucket it is not clear, and left alone it eventually separates like the photo from the VST. Really weird. My next step is to pump the tank dry, add new fuel and see how it goes. It is so strange since I have been doing this same fueling/timing for almost 10 years and never had a problem. Usually I keep the 140 gallon tank half full and burn almost all of it off (and replace it) every trip --maximum time is 2 months but usually it is less. These motors have been perfect so maybe either I finally got a load of really contaminated gas (I jerry can all my gas from a high volume station here -- much more turnover than our marinas...) or....?

So that's it. My knuckles hurt and I thing I've earned a '3 wrench' patch, but at least my Suzukis are purring again. I hope I don't have to replace my tank, but we shall see...


THANK to all!

Mark




Similarly, in science, Occam's razor is used as an abductive heuristic in the development of theoretical models rather than as a rigorous arbiter between candidate models.^[4][5] In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result; the preference for simplicity in the scientific method is based on the falsifiability criterion. For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives. Since failing explanations can always be burdened with ad hoc hypotheses to prevent them from being falsified, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they tend to be more testable.^[6][7][8]

[briscoe]

Can't say Occams (hmm), I can say it is maddening to try and tie down issue when you've (we've) made so many actions. Not hearing pump running had to be battery or cable related. However, your engine failure event was, no doubt, fuel related.
Brilliant move if I understood correctly that you replaced water tubing. While you have silencer and rails out of the way, replacing tubing, even fuel lines is great move.
Sometime this week I'll be picking up my boat with a new 2023 DF140 GB. Then starts the dreaded breakin period. First 3 hours dreaded at any rate.

685471054(1).jpg
They sent me a pic.