2018 DF 250 losing power and going to limp mode after plowing through big wake

[Pioneer22]

2018 DF 250 (200 hours) runs great but after going through big wake motor loses most but not all power. Goes to limp mode. Turn motor off. Wait a minute. Motors cranks right up and runs perfectly.

All below very recent:
New AGM batteries
New fuel bulb
new spark plugs
Replaced fuel tank syphon valve to brass one (Had blocked syphon valve)
Oil change C10 re-set was not done after oil change. Went through alarms going off. Took to shop they followed alarms. Took off cam rotation sensors. They had small amounts of metal fillings on them. Put back in water. Alarms again. Re-set oil change on C10. Motor worked properly immediately. Did go through some alarms popping up on C10 but cycled through without motor interuptions

Yesterday, motor cranked and ran perfectly. Hit a big wake, lost power but not all (limp mode). Turned motor off. Wait a minute. Motors cranks right up and runs perfectly.

Looking at all electrical connections I can see. battery terminal nuts are tight tight. Main power line at motor looks great. Going through all fuses

Feel like there is a short or loose connection somewhere. Electrical not my strongest skill. Any one have a suggestion? Thank you!

[Pioneer22]

This just in. Went to make sure battery cable terminals were shiny and tight. Discovered that one of the terminal posts (neg) was turning as I tried to loosen nut off. Maybe that caused temporary loss of ground. Any comments are welcome. Battery was replaced by Batteries Plus Bulbs. AGM w 100 amp.

[redlowrey]

It sounds like to me you have an A series engine with electronic throttle control and when you hit a wall of water, instead of the throttle opening more to counter act the rpm drop the engine rpm falls off and the computer goes into limp mode.

If it goes into limp mode it would have logged information into the computer. If your engine has a throttle cable, disregard what I have posted.

[Moonlighter]

A bad ground is certainly a potential cause of the loss of power after hitting a wake as you described. It may also have contributed to the codes and engine running issues.

Now that this issue is fixed, test the boat again and see if the problem is gone.

[redlowrey]

I agree, he took it to a dealer you think that there would have been some sought of information on the voltage being erratic, they took the oil control solenoids for the variable valve timing which didn’t make sense to me.

You would think if it lost power from the cable he would have seen gauges and lights flicker.

[Pioneer22]

Thanks to you all. Throttle is cable. I'm a little new with the C10, will look at alarm history. Dealer I went to was one I trust but not a Suzuki dealer. The last incident had brief display of alarms and limp mode. Turned off. Waited 2 minutes. Started right up and all well.

Taking to the Suzuki dealer a week from now where the boat was purchased just to be on safe side. But, will be running this weekend with a new battery. Cross your fingers! Im hearing that newer 4 strokes are very voltage sensitive; Suzuki maybe more than most. Will report back in 2 weeks or less if problems this weekend!

[Pioneer22]

Suzuki dealer just called and said they are not seeing anything. They said there was one incident of over-heating to 180 degrees but diagnostics do not provide date of incident. I asked to have all the C-10 code s history reviewed. They are going to call back after. I'm curious why they didn't do that. The last code was a couple of weeks ago and was 5-1 - something to do with an "OCV" according to a forum thread on that code. Anyone know what an "OCV" is?

[Moonlighter]

The codes aren’t “in the C-10”.

The C-10 is just a window into seeing the codes sent to the network. Its just a display.

The dealer has (or should have) the Suzuki diagnostic software (SDS) on a laptop that can be connected to the engine to read the history that is stored in the ecu. This includes codes.

That is more than likely where they saw the incident of overheating recorded. So there is no such thing as the C-10 code history that you’ve asked for.

You can however ask for a printout of the ecu history report that the dealer can access from the SDS system. If I ask in advance, my dealer will email that report to me when they complete the annual services. Its usually saved as a spreadsheet file. You can then see for yourself the history of the engine including fault codes and the like.

Or you can just ask the dealer “did you connect the engine to the SDS software and check the history of codes and alarms, and what did that show?” Thats the correct question and shows you understand how this all works.

BUT

A bad battery, eg such as yours that had a loose battery post that probably caused intermittent power connections in rough conditions, will often cause phantom codes to be thrown on the C-10 due to the voltage spikes caused to the network power.

There will be no records of those false codes on the ecu history because, well, they were phantom codes that didn’t actually exist. It is therefore a pretty safe assumption that if you saw codes recently and there is no record of them in the ecu history, that they were phantom codes caused by voltage issues.

And, the ecu does not like bad voltage either caused by such a voltage supply interruption, and that is also a potential cause of the running issues you described. Eg power to ecu interrupted, not surprising that the engine loses power.

I think there is a fair chance that the problems experienced may have been solved by replacing the faulty battery. Only testing on water will confirm/deny that.

[redlowrey]

Suzuki dealer just called and said they are not seeing anything. They said there was one incident of over-heating to 180 degrees but diagnostics do not provide date of incident. I asked to have all the C-10 code s history reviewed. They are going to call back after. I'm curious why they didn't do that. The last code was a couple of weeks ago and was 5-1 - something to do with an "OCV" according to a forum thread on that code. Anyone know what an "OCV" is?

You have already stated in your first post the dealer took off the ocv oil control valves, they are what makes the variable valve timing work, so you must have had a 5.1 code in memory when the engine went into limp mode. What must happen for that code to to come up, the stbd cam had a difference in the desired advance to the actual advance, meaning, if the fault was real and not because of a loose cable when you hit the wall of water the rpm would drop and the amount of cam timing should have changed with it, if it didn't and was out of desired specs. a 5.1 code will be produced and will go into limp mode.

[Pioneer22]

The original dealer (Not a Suzuki dealer) I went to pulled the CRS's - Cam Rotation Sensors, not OCV's. (Unless those are the same things?)

Thank you all again for the responses. Picked up the boat from Suzuki dealer last Friday. Clean bill of health. As you all described above, no mention was made of C-10 alarms. The only reading they recognized was a single over heating alarm that was in the main computer records which occurred over a year ago. (I thought it was strange that they had no interest nor concerns with the alarm history on the C-10) Got the boat back in the water last Saturday. Was both v widy and v busy on the water. We ran through some stiff waves and alarms started going off although at first with only beeps. Then they continued with more waves and the alarms started loading up on the C-10. That continued without a limp mode incident and then we hit a pretty nice sized wave and into limp mode we went. Won't deny, I was frustrated. Shut the motor off. Turned the batt switch to ALL OFF. Waited 5 minutes. Batts back on. Cranked motor. Throttled up like normal. Alarms again came faintly with beep only. Then they started loading into the C-10 with beeps but some cleared themselves. Over the course of 5-10 minutes they came more more infrequently. I began easily closing the alarms as they continued but were only 3-5 more. After that, the alarms stopped and never came back for the 2 hours more we stayed on the water. Plenty of waves / bigger waves.

I can only think this has been the result of the motor running in a "low voltage" scenario for weeks with the old batteries. I read in a few articles that when a DF250 runs in low voltage for any time, it takes a while for its internal electrical systems to "re-adjust" after the voltage is raised to minimum required levels. To me, this is the only conclusion I can come to which makes sense. Looking forward to a little smooth sailing from here!

[Moonlighter]

I saw your PM.

I dont think there is any “re-learning” involved for the ecu. Never heard of that.

I wonder whether the new batteries simply needed to be run for a while to charge up fully. As you may know, most batteries even bought new might have been sitting on the shelf for weeks or more, so often need a good solid run to get them charged up fully. Had this experience a while ago on my car when we installed a new battery, it has the stop/start system and it doesn't operate until the battery is fully charged. It took 30 minutes on the trip home before the stop/start active light came on.

If there are continuing issues, I would suspect a wiring issue, possibly the network power supply behind the dash. And as I think I may have said, on a few occasions, the engine interface cable can cause these issues if it is failing internally. Only solution then is to replace it with the correct version.

Anyway keep us updated on how it goes.

[Pioneer22]

Thank you! Much appreciated. Sorry for delayed response. Work has been a little hairy.