2014 - DF175 Leak Down Results and Options

[jorgegg]

400 Hour service. This was the message from my mechanic today, whom I trust, and have been using for 3 years (he's done all the service intervals).

we compression and leak down tested the engines. compression was good on both. leak down, not so good. port engine 25%,30%,55%,30%. stbd engine 25%,40%,35%,30%. these should all be 10% or less. called Suzuki on it, they want us to run some engine cleaner through the systems. we expect this to cost about $650.

1. Will the engine cleaner process really help?
2. If it can't be resolved, should this type of repair be covered by warranty?

I can't believe that these engines, which have been maintained precisely by the service intervals guidelines require this much attention.

BTW - the boat hit's WOT, runs well, but smokes more than usual (for newer engines), and appear to consume a little more fuel than comparable DF175 on a similar boat (I've been in contact with other worldcat 255dc users).

I would appreciate guidance regarding this issue and potential resolutions if other than what the mechanic is prescribing.

[Moonlighter]

At the 200 hour service, did the valve clearances get checked (and adjusted if required) as per service schedule?

Note: checking valve clearances can be done with normal tools, however if any adjustments were required a special Suzuki tool would have been needed, plus Suzuki valve shims would have to be purchased either individually or as a service set.

[Hoosmatroos]

Perhaps I miss read it but running the engine cleaner through the motor will cost $650? Wat are they going to do for that much money?

[redlowrey]

What made your mechanic do a percentage leak down test, usually you would do something like that when you are chasing a compression problem.

That test is good for finding where your comp is going, eg rings, valves, bad head gasket and so on, and I would listen in the prop for air getting passed the exhaust valves, listen in the inlet manifold, and take the oil cap off and listen in the sump, that will give you a good idea of how much air is going passed your rings.

If you had no leakage passed your valves it will save a job of removing the cover and inspecting the clearances. You have probably got large ring gaps and tight tappets, similar to a lot of other df175 engines.

Don't waste your money on a flush, if the oil has been changed regularly with
quality oil.

[jorgegg]

Thanks for the quick responses.

They did the compression and leak down at my request. The engines were smoking a lot when running (even at running temp) which I didn't believe was normal for 4 strokes with 400 hours.

I didn't read on the receipt if they completed the valve clearance test at 200 hours, and I'll ask.

When I spoke with the mechanic, he said that Suzuki noted this engine cleaning process needed to occur 1st before any potential repairs cover under warranty. I asked if could skip it all together, and it was not recommended since I could risk not having it cover under warranty. I'm following up to get a better understanding of the process/costs when I visit the shop later.

[artdf175]

question oil consumption?
how midlch oil were you adding over hours of usage?
art

[pniksnut]

that was what i was thinking 2. if there is to much leakage from the pistons you also get to much exhaust gas in the intake

[wilbur1]

I think your dealer might be hosing you. If compression is good within 10#to 15# on all cylinders,leakdown should be good also. If compression was bad you do a leakdown test to see where its leaking from. Rings or valves.

[jorgegg]

Thank you all for the responses. I had a chance to visit the shop this morning and they are waiting for a scope to validate the issue and take next steps. They are not cleaning or running the engines until then.

They did show me another df175 (2015) that had less than 300 hours broken down. I saw the scarring on two cylinder walls which were causing similar smoke and oil burn problems as my engines display.

Since I experience smoke thru normal engine operations, which is not common for these 4 strokes, and it's using close to 12% more fuel than the first 100 hours I have to believe there's an issue. I don't think the mechanics are trying to pull a fast one, and i've known the shop for a while.

Based on this tread, as a precaution, I stopped by 2 additional local Suzuki shops, seeking a second and third opinion based on the facts known. Both spoke very highly of the shop the boat is in (for Suk service), and recommended I wait for the scope outcomes. One of these 2 shops specializes in new/used outboards, is well known on the commercial front.

Hopefully the warranty will come thru if it needs serious work. I could run the engines until something happens (which is an option) but that's a risk I don't care to take. I spent a few tours in the USCG and learned that no matter the temptation, it's not worth going out 50+ miles offshore if you know your engines are at risk. I can't tell you how many SAR operations I experienced, some life threatening, because people were not diligent with their equipment before heading out.

I'll keep updating the tread as things evolve. I appreciate the ongoing advise, as i"m not as informed as you all on the engineering aspects. If there's anything else I can do or take into account, please let me know.

[artdf175]

repeat. how much oil is it consuming?
Are you the original owner of the engine?
if so - did you follow the break in procedures exactly?

let me find and post a link to what I experienced with my 175
Art

link
http://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/s...006-df175.html

[jorgegg]

I am the original owner, and followed the break in and service intervals to a tee. Have all the paperwork handy should Suzuki want to review. It was done by Suzuki authorized dealer.

I just don't have a way of calculating how much oil, since i didn't check the level recently nor added any since the last service interval.

I appreciate the link. It was very educational and I hope for similar outcomes, without a big $ hit.

When I bought the boat, the shop said to follow the procedures for break in and to not go over 20 hrs before the 1st service, which I did.

[redlowrey]

Can you post up what the compression pressures where for each engine, and did they smoke from day one, or is one ok, would be strange both engines smoking.

[jorgegg]

I'll see if I can get the compression numbers and will post.

The didn't smoke until this last year. First the Starboard engine, and about 4 month laters the Port. The motors where in their 3rd year when the smoke started.

[jorgegg]

Well, the boat is going to another shop for a second opinion. I spoke with another mechanic and he recommended that someone else evaluate the engines.

I was not able to get compression values, and that trigger a set of conversations that led me to move shops. I'll update the forum after I get another update.

This time the boat is going to a location where the brand of the boat is sold and they are also an authorize suzuki dealer.

[jorgegg]

UPDATE

The engines were both re tested (dealer where I purchased the boat). Compression was 160 all around and leak down test found only 2 cylinders that were not at 100% (one on STB and one on PRT). Both within tolerances (5%)

I sent the previous leak down findings and they suggest that the previous test tool must not be operating normally because they could not duplicate findings.

They also checked valve clearances and i'm good to go! Minimal fee for retesting and I should be back in the water next week.

Thank you all for the knowledge and responses. They helped me properly addressed the concerns and saved me a lot of $ and time. Regards. JG