Alarm and Warning Lights During Cranking

[Engism]

Hi,
I have 2 x 2012 DF175,s fitted ..... both start and operate without issue however even though both the left and right engines give proper warnings and indications when ign selected to on when I crank the left engine all is normal but when i crank the right engine the alarm sounds and warning lights illuminate but all clear once engine starts. Other than that there are no warnings or diagnostics and battery volt decay is normal during both starts .... any ideas?
Ian

[Murray]

Wonder if you have some electrical issues on that motor. Check for poor connections, perhaps some corrosion in one of the electrical plugs?

[Engism]

Thanks for the thought but I have tried this and also tried the battery terminals, maybe a ECU issue ?

[Murray]

Possibly the ECM but one would think you would have issues when running not just on startup. Usually weird multiple codes are related to low voltage issues. Since you have two engines you have the ability to change parts around to see if the codes follow the parts. I would suggest you get yourself a genuine Suzuki shop manual, all the testing specs./procedures are there.

[redlowrey]

Connect up a volt meter and do some voltage drop testing, l wouldn’t mind betting that the voltage is dropping below 10 volts at the computer When cranking.

[Engism]

Redlowrey,
Good idea, but my battery indicators do not reflect this (but will slot a voltmeter into the system further down the curcuit) funnily enough I did suspect voltage drop but it does it even with battery selector set to both ..... all feedback appreciated, was just hoping someone else had a similar issue.

[Moonlighter]

You will probably have heard of the Suzuki “white wire”?

It provides power to the engine’s ecu. Eg its brain.

If the ecu does not receive sufficient voltage/amperage, then you will almost certainly have problems with things like false alarms, engine running issues and the like.

There is a sticky thread in the top of this forum that gives lots more info about the white wire and how it can affect things.

So, your batteries may be good.

Your main battery cables may be good.

But your engine still may have these weird issues - because the white wire is compromised. We had another similar post on here fairly recently and despite urging a careful inspection, cleaning and physical check of all of those electrical system items, the poster insisted they were “all good”. Which probably meant he had a quick look in their general direction.

At the end of the day, after trying many other things, the white wire was found to have internal corrosion, and as soon as that was rectified, the problem was fixed.

The WW is usually connected to the start battery or to the main battery switch. Recommend that, as well as undoing, inspecting, cleaning and tightening the main battery terminal connections, that you locate the white wire and conduct a very careful inspection of the wire, its connection to the battery, and the large fuse (and the fuse holder) that should be in that wire close by to where its connected to power. Take the fuse out and verify that the connections each end of the fuse holder are good and no signs of corrosion in or around the holder.

The thing is that you can quite easily do this stuff yourself. And if it turns out that the problem lies elsewhere, then you at least know that these connections are all in tip top condition and can be confident that preventative maintenance is always worthwhile.

[Engism]

Hi Again Moonlighter, I replaced the WW and swapped fuses beween engine 1 no change I also refitted new connectors to all leads to batterys but same same and took the chance to shorten a few wires as they were looped from when fitted and disected the wires but all good........ volt drop not below 10v on either engine during starting in fact other than the alarm L and R engs are same same...... seems to simply give an alarm during cranking and as soon as RPM drops to 800 revs as it settles to idle the alarm cancels...... no big deal maybe just a confused ECOU .........if I only had 1 engine I probably wouldn't have even noticed but it runs fine and other than the alarm at start she's a gooden ..... thanks guys for taking time to feedback I will justy live with it ... life is good.

[Engism]

Update on Situation,

No progress, all wires be they supply or control (white wire) jumped now and tested for voltage drop on start, worst drop from 12.9 was to 12 during start. No faults being triggered and other than this anomoly engine works fine ..... next week Suzuki will come with diagnostic kit and I will update again. (am wondering if its the ignition switch ?)
Ian

[redlowrey]

Update on Situation,

No progress, all wires be they supply or control (white wire) jumped now and tested for voltage drop on start, worst drop from 12.9 was to 12 during start. No faults being triggered and other than this anomoly engine works fine ..... next week Suzuki will come with diagnostic kit and I will update again. (am wondering if its the ignition switch ?)
Ian

You are not connecting your volt meter where it should be connected, and there is know way that you could initially crank even a toy suzuki df175 and battery voltage not drop below 12 volts, something is not right.

[Engism]

[QUOTE=Murray;n60570]Wonder if you have some electrical issues on that motor. Check for poor connections, perhaps some corrosion in one of the electrical plugs?[/QUOTE

Redlowrey,
Thanks for your input ...... without going into my 40 years of experience I think I know how to test a circuit but thanks for playing ......... we even double checked the volts using the chart system volts display as that is the first thing to trip off at the sign of low voltage (as has been my experience) and they read exactly 12.1 on crank and 14.2 once started and charging as did our test points....... roughly same volts reproduced on left engine +/-


So my good man Redlowrey.... maybe i missunderstood your condesending tone with otherwise no additional useful input so please .......where/how would you have measured for voltage drop during start.

Brgds/Ian

[Engism]

Update as of March 2022

After 8 months of troubleshooting from time to time, replacing wires and tripple checking voltages I have found by accident that if I start the engines by turning key to "on" then "start" before the Tacho needle goes up to show engine hours there are no alarms and start is normal however if i go to "on" and then wait for the Tacho needle to show engine hours and return to zero and then select "start" I get the audio warnings until engine starts and then all inds are normal.

Quite a strange one but having found that if I simply go from "on" to "start" without waiting for the ECU to do its thing then all indications are normal with no alarms.

Go Figure

Brgds/Ian

[artdf175]

You come here asking questions
then you say
"So my good man Redlowrey.... maybe i missunderstood your condesending tone with otherwise no additional useful input so please .......where/how would you have measured for voltage drop during start."

I would be very careful how you respond if you ever want help here again.......

you should know the Redlowery is one of the best technicians on the forum - for those that don't know it all before they ask the question

[Engism]

You come here asking questions
then you say
"So my good man Redlowrey.... maybe i missunderstood your condesending tone with otherwise no additional useful input so please .......where/how would you have measured for voltage drop during start."

I would be very careful how you respond if you ever want help here again.......

you should know the Redlowery is one of the best technicians on the forum - for those that don't know it all before they ask the question

Artdf175
My reply to redlowrey was his reply to me not connecting my tester correctly ..... not a lot of help from an expert however I have discovered the fault and fixed it and will post accordingly.

[Engism]

Update 23 Mar 22

Based on my previous findings regarding the ignition start sequence yesterday I went looking at the connectors again below the console and as Murray suggested and there lay the problem ..... in the 8 wire disconnect plug that was previously checked corrosion free and refitted......... today I pulled the connector apart again for a closer look and found one of the male pins loose in its socket on the right ignition harness directly below the key ....I temporarily re-secured the pin and reconnected the connector and problem solved ... no more warnings during start.

It would seem that the pin was being pushed aside slightly when plug was re-connected and while testing was ok it was giving the ECU a low voltage message only when I selected start if I left the key in the on position and allowed the ECU to do its thing but system voltage was actually normal just seems the signal to the ECU was reported as low during ECU test.

Tomorrow I will cut the plug out of the circuit on both engines and hard connect the wiring.

I seem to have upset some and I appologise however hopefully anyone who gets this problem now has a possible area to look at.

Brgds/Ian