Engine interface does not appear on network bus unless GPS device is attached?

[Mydf150rac]

My new old stock Engine interface cable part #990C0-88148 with software version 2.8 which I am trying to load software version 2.3 for my 2006 DF 150 will not accept the update from my Lowrance LCX 28 HD and the 2.3 luf file from Moonlighter’s Dropbox. After browsing to the luf file on the SD card in my lowrance the update process times out after a few minutes but before any progress is shown. The only two devices on my network are the engine interface and my lowrance gps. I tried remove the GPS from the network and reconnected the backbone and two terminators in order to isolate the engine interface thinking the GPS module my be interfering with the update but once it is removed from the network the engine interface no longer registers on the network. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Items I have confirmed;

I have read Moonlighter’s NEMA write up

I have confirmed back bone is terminated correctly

I have confirmed the engine interface is communicating with the network and sending data (Engine on and running and ignition on only, when the gps module is also on the network)

[Moonlighter]

LCX is barely NMEA2000 capable, let alone Certified. That may well be the problem. Or, part of it. Can you get/loan a HDS or Elite Ti/Ti2 model to do the upload with?

And what size is the SD card that the file is on?

I know that HDS models can only read SD cards which have a max size of 32GB, and it wouldn’t surprise me if LCX was even less than that. Try finding an old 8gb or even a 2gb capacity card to use and see how that goes.

Also, if I recall correctly, the old pre-HDS Lowrance displays also had 2 sets of power wires in its power cable, one that powers the display and a second set that powers the NMEA2000 network.

You should check to ensure that if you have a new NMEA2000 network installed with its own power node, that the Lowrance’s NMEA2000 power is NOT ALSO CONNECTED! That would lead to double powering the network and cause problems.

It may also explain the issues with devices not appearing on the network when the Lowrance is removed - if it is indeed the only source of network power then removing it will deprive the network of power and devices then cant communicate/see each other.

In that case I would recommend removing the Lowrances NMEA2000 power wires, and installing an extra T and connect a proper NMEA2000 power node to it.

[Mydf150rac]

Mr. Moonlighter,

Thank you for your response to my query and the being the vast information resource that you are to this and other fourms.

The SD card is an old 1GB.
The Lowarnce 28LCX is the only power source for the NEMA network. The power cable from the lowrance is as you described.
The network is an old lowrance blue connector type network with 3 T connectors (1. Power from lowrance head unit. 2. LGC 4000 GPS unit. 3. Engine interface.)

I will attempt to find a local dealer to see if they may be able flash the device from some newer equipment.
One thing I have noticed when I look at the properties of the Engine interface and the GPS puck on the network bus is that the GPS displays an address on the network but the engine interface has a zero (0) as its address. Perhaps this is why the update times out?

Is there any way to confirm that the engine interface cable is a version that allows for the update? Would the fact that it currently has ver 2.8.0 installed confirm that it is an updatable interface? It also states it is a Model 3.0.0 interface on the Device Information page.

I hope my description of the network and issues may spark another suggestion/solution.

Regards

[Moonlighter]

I am a bit confused re your network backbone, but I think you mean that it is:

1. Lowrance display to one T. The display connection provides both power to and shares data with the network.
2. Puck to one T
3. Suzuki interface to last T.

All will be connected by normal NMEA2000 drop cables although with blue connectors.

The old blue T’s are a bit notorious for having problems. I actually have some brand new, unused ones sitting in a box somewhere you could have for US $10 ea, although with postage from Australia to USA it could end up being a bit expensive. But let me know if interested. I think there are 3 or 4 there possibly.

Version 2.8 cables were still the old design, the new version started with V2.9. So it should be good to change to V2.30. Does it have the 2 x walnut sized noise supressors?

Probably the Suzuki is showing as a zero because its not configured but again, it could also be due to the limitations of the LCX, or maybe just because 2.8 doesnt recognise the older engine. REMEMBER THE ENGINE KEY MUST BE ON when you are doing any of this stuff. Key on, but engine doesnt have to be running.

Just as a test, you could try to configure the network and the interface using the LCX, although I really dont know if it can do this. Anyway, the procedure in HDS and Simrad displays is as follows.

1. Open the fuel menu if its there. Then select Boat Setup. Use the dropdowns to set the boat up to match how yours is eg 1 engine/1 tank if thats what it has. Set the tank capacity save and exit.
2. open the network menu, then open the device list. Highlight the Suzuki device and there should, if its going to be able to do it, an option to Configure. Select and enter. Set the engine location using the dropdown as Centre. Dont try to change the year or horsepower because 2.8 automatically detects them. You will however set them manually when using 2.30. Save and exit.

That is the network and interface configuration done. Now, engine data should be available to the LCX, although, from memory, only as data overlay items because I dont think it has engine data (dashboard style) pages.

You are going to need to do the above steps when you get 2.3 loaded anyway. So if you beg/borrow/steal/buy a display such as a HDS to do the file upload, keep it on there once its done and then do the configuration as per those 2 steps. Once its done and confirmed, the HDS/Simrad display can be removed and the settings are retained in the interface cable.

(Aside: may I humbly suggest that you consider retiring the LCX and get a newer display, HDS gen 3 is compatible with even the newest models and has full engine data and NMEA2000 capability so you get to take full advantage of the Suzuki data. Anything earlier than Gen 3 wont play with newer models nicely so I wouldn’t go anything earlier. Simrad NSS evo 2 and newer, or any Simrad GO series display will do the job. Apart from network capability, the newer HDS and Simrad sonars are far more advanced than LCX, and their built in GPS antennas are much faster and more sensitive than the old LCG models, if thats what your puck is.)

Second last tip - check that the update file saved to your SD card with the .luf at the end in lower case. Sometimes it may for reasons unknown change to upper case LUF which wont work. Jusr rename the file with luf in lower case after the dot.

Last tip - make sure you have good voltage supply when doing any of this, if in any doubt put the battery charger on the battery while its being done.

[Mydf150rac]

Yes, the network backbone is as you described it.
Yes, the engine interface cable does have the two em isolator walnut looking things on either side of the module.

So just to be clear the network although old technology works and has always been stable and passing data to the LCX. Then my original v2.3 cable bit the dust a couple of months ago. So I was fortunate enough to find this new old stock v2.8 cable on eBay and paid a princely sum for it.
After swapping out the cables the engine interface is recognized by my old network and does pass all the customary engine data to the MFD and I configured the custom overlay gauges that my LCX is limited to. I would leave it as is but as you know the fuel flow rate and resulting fuel usage, fuel remaining calculations are not at all accurate and can not be corrected through the calibration process. So here I am, hoping that it would be a straight forward downgrade of the software to v2.3 alas it seems not to be.

I have confirmed the battery bank charge/voltage and the luf file extension is lower case. I also attempted to install v2.5 with the same time out issue.
The equipment upgrade will have to wait until next year, but it is in the plans.

Again, my many thanks for your help with this issue.

Regards

[Moonlighter]

The simple jobs sometimes turn out to be …… not so simple.

If you can get a HDS attached (it might even be able to use the power cable for the LCX?) then it really wont take you 5 minutes to get the upload done and the network configured. The problem that just occurred to me is that the HDS will have the small black NMEA2000 connector…… aaarrrgggghhhhh! There is an blue to red adapter cable available though…

Best of luck, hope you get it sorted.