Df90a 2015

[Matt LeJeune]

I recently bought a boat with a DF90A on it. At the time of purchase the starter motor would engage and merely clickover the flywheel in a repeated click scenario. I brought it to an autorized suzuki dealer, (under warranty), and the repair shop not only did not call me, but replaced and then did not disclose a reason for replacing the starter which cost a sum of $1400, which brings me to now where the starting motor does the same thing. The very first time I had it out, it worked on every key turn and on an older battery from 2018 which does still take a charge (I have a noco 12000 which has been good). and a separate volt meter to check these things. sometimes it starts, sometimes not, sometimes it starts with a charge on it (jumper), sometimes not. It killed two family outtings at the ramp, and almost some others. I have zero confidence in the system right now and it is a crap shoot.

Here are my actual questions:

How should I test voltage drop? between a "good" battery and the starting system?
Assuming my new starter is good and factory direct, should I rewire the whole thing?

Here is my intended "fix":
1. I bought a new console, everything underneath is getting rewired
2. Because of that, and I am unsure of the main power and main ground wire's age I'm going to replace them.

If after all of that IF my issue persists what in your expertise would be the issue. relay?

Thank you, -M

[jHydroman]

You can check the voltage drop by checking the voltage at several different locations when switch is in off position and cranking position.

In OFF position, steps #1 and #2, a fully charged battery should read ->12.2 v.

In CRANKING position the voltage at each location may progressive drop at each position (starting from battery) dependent on connection and cable conditions, MINIMUM voltage at any location should be lower than 9.5v.

You will need to place the -NEG voltmeter lead on the GROUND located in the engine cowling.

1. Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on battery Positive at BATTERY BOX
2. Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on battery side of starting solenoid
3, Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on starter side of starting solenoid
4, Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on terminal on starter


Hope this helps.

Jim

[Moonlighter]

And, suggest you have a read of the “white wire” sticky thread in the top section of this forum.

[Matt LeJeune]

Thank you I will check that run, I found the wiring diagram for the white wire in the service manual which covers the df70A,df80A,&df90A for my model year. Appreciate the help

[redlowrey]

You can check the voltage drop by checking the voltage at several different locations when switch is in off position and cranking position.

In OFF position, steps #1 and #2, a fully charged battery should read ->12.2 v.

In CRANKING position the voltage at each location may progressive drop at each position (starting from battery) dependent on connection and cable conditions, MINIMUM voltage at any location should be lower than 9.5v.

You will need to place the -NEG voltmeter lead on the GROUND located in the engine cowling.

1. Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on battery Positive at BATTERY BOX
2. Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on battery side of starting solenoid
3, Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on starter side of starting solenoid
4, Voltmeter + POSITIVE connected on terminal on starter


Hope this helps.

Jim

I think Jim meant to say that the voltage should NOT drop below 9,5 volts when cranking,, and a fully charged battery should read around 12.7 volts, actually with good batteries and good power and grounds the battery voltage would not drop below 10.5 volts with these toy engines.

If you had a cranking voltage of 9.5 volts on any of the engines that use the Mitsubishi stepper motor you would get flare up on a cold start high rpm and a stall.

[Matt LeJeune]

I read that as well as "to Not drop below 9.5v" I have a brand new "Interstate" brand battery that I'm not impressed with which has hovered around 12.3-12.4 fully charged which meets and exceeds the recommendations for my motor as the starting battery. The original battery that it came with when I bought it which was marked as a 2018 purchase has been good, fully charged has been 12.6-12.8. It has a lower rating than recommended in regards to capacity.

My issue right now is still that the starter (starter assembly was fully replaced) pin engages and moves up to crank the fly wheel and ends up doing a click, click, click. something isn't right. I contacted the person I purchased the boat from yesterday and he wasn't the repower decision maker. The original starter did the same thing, which means to me the probability that my starter replacement was a fully waste of $, and any main power re-wiring never happened, and even if it did I see no shrink wrapping and no water protection on any wires. which is either a problem from 2014ish to 2005 when the hull was built. In either case, all of these wires I assume are toast. There is a severe lack of detail here in the northeast, the suzuki authorized shop I brought it to should not be "authorized" for any boat work, but thats a different story.

I will report back on my tests, and report back on the white wire. Saturday looks like a blowout up here in New England so I'll check it out then.

[Matt LeJeune]

it is a toy engine! a nice one at that! it should start no problem, but here I am unfortunately complaining about it.

[redlowrey]

I doubt that your starter was faulty, the noise you can hear is the solenoid plunger moving forward and engaging the ring gear, and when it hits the contacts in the end cap and supplies the main voltage to the motor side, the voltage drops and the plunger retracts, the voltage increases and the plunger moves forward again, this will keep repeating that is why you hear click, click, click, and so on.

It is just voltage drop, either on the main ground or battery, or supply, easy to check, if you know how to use a multimeter and test light I can help you find where your problem is. If you had a problem with ignition supply ( white wire ) I don't think the solenoid plunger would move forward enough to engage the main contacts in the end cap, from having too lower voltage from the starter relay. But that is easy to check.

[jHydroman]

I think Jim meant to say that the voltage should NOT drop below 9,5 volts when cranking,, and a fully charged battery should read around 12.7 volts, actually with good batteries and good power and grounds the battery voltage would not drop below 10.5 volts with these toy engines.

If you had a cranking voltage of 9.5 volts on any of the engines that use the Mitsubishi stepper motor you would get flare up on a cold start high rpm and a stall.

Sorry guys left out the word NO, should read NO lower than 9.5 volts.

[Matt LeJeune]

I doubt that your starter was faulty, the noise you can hear is the solenoid plunger moving forward and engaging the ring gear, and when it hits the contacts in the end cap and supplies the main voltage to the motor side, the voltage drops and the plunger retracts, the voltage increases and the plunger moves forward again, this will keep repeating that is why you hear click, click, click, and so on.

It is just voltage drop, either on the main ground or battery, or supply, easy to check, if you know how to use a multimeter and test light I can help you find where your problem is. If you had a problem with ignition supply ( white wire ) I don't think the solenoid plunger would move forward enough to engage the main contacts in the end cap, from having too lower voltage from the starter relay. But that is easy to check.

I think you are right here Redlowrey. There is no white wire that runs to my batter or switch, however everything is operational. The outboard trims at the console and at the motor. The click, click, click, is the issue I am consistently having. It is possible that both situations are happening at once. I do not believe I ever get "no starts" this motor imo should start every time without issue, i do believe it is a wiring issue, old wires, old connections. All batteries are good. the hull is 2005, the repower to suz was 2015, the wires never got touched. There are a number of "danglers" under the console which is ridiculous to me, and whoever did the work did a sloppy job at it.

[Matt LeJeune]

Update, I dismounted everything in the console. traced the white wire out of that area and it follows from the ignition, splits and goes all the way back to the engine area (inside the main harness) where I believe it goes thru the proper channels & fused and is why i get a click to begin with, my ptt works and nothing fails in the igintion sequence. some of this white wire "talk" is outdated, I see mutiple platforms of zuks that either don't have a white wire to the battery or receive their power to the white wire just before the relays inside the outboard compartment. The suzuki manual does show a white wire configuration that runs off the main harness to the battery pos and ANOTHER configuration occuring within the outboard compartment and not near the battery at all as an alternate scenario.

Based on other info found on this forum there are factory recommended lengths and gauges of wire to run if the factory pos and neg wires do not work in your boat's configuration with a battery close to the o/b. In other words, when the outboard is sold with 10 feet of wire, and your battery is 12 feet away, the entire run is too small of wire guage. Mine should have been 2 awg min, running about 12' in one wire, its 4awg which might have "worked" originally and over 15 years has failed to deliver the power needed to crank the starter. I think the load needed to run any starter on an outboard should be listed, these outboard are being put on many boats and they are popular because they 1. work 2. have a great warrantee 3 are cost effective and efficient, that being said, if everyone is splicing big wire to factory wire before it feeds into the engine I believe many are doing it wrong. If anything it should be an 0/ guage wire off the main connections then step down at a splice to whatever 3% power drop is over the run.

Frustrated here finding a Northeast US Suzuki dealer that is worth my time and money.

[Matt LeJeune]

Thanks all for the white wire discussion, mine is hooked up at the outboard per the suzuki manual when the batteries are not in the stern. I rewired the entire boat over the winter minus the main harness and she fired right up tonight, tilt trim work at the controls and on the side of the o/b.

After spending all that money, the problem was the wiring from the motor to the batteries. When I took off the suzuki wire to the splice it was black inside. The run of 4awg was not enough to start the engine and that corrosion was plenty to not turn the starter properly. I do wish the shop I brought it to diagnosed the issue from the start to save me a giant bill because the old starter did work and it's replacement, which was never the problem and neither was the white wire.

These engines are fantastic, and the professionals on this board are as well. Thank you for your time because it made me invest myself into learning everything about these engines electrical systems.

Seeya on the water, -ML