98 dt200 intermittant no start

[bladenbullet]

1998 dt200...cranks but wont start...fuel is good and plugs are wet when removed...no spark...

let it sit after cranking (15-20 minutes) come back and it fires right up....

biggest problem I am having is the wiring from the magnetos is colored differently than the factory manual (pdf) is showing me...little confusing on exactly what the set up is under the flywheel and testing....

both pickups produce ac voltage while cranking...the flywheel tooth pickup produces over 2v...the flywheel magnet pickup produces below one volt but I cannot find a spec for either...the gaps are proper...

when it starts it runs fine although I haven't been in the water with it yet...purchased in late December and have been busy renovating the boat (1991 21 offshore center console)...

looking for ideas...the no start then starts after sitting is a head scratcher....I originally noticed the high pressure pump pulsing when I first cranked it up....I rebuilt the diaphragm pumps and the pressure comes up immediately now...but the spark concern is keeping it from starting....

[Solarman]

Have you got the Suzuki service manual for the dt200?
Could not tell you how the wire colors are different if you have the manual.

You only have the gear counting coil (counts each tooth of flywheel), the ignition timing coil (sends pulses for each revolution of flywheel), magneto, and flywheel. There is a TVS (throttle valve sensor), and injection control module.

Did you rebuild the high pressure pump diaphrams, or the low pressure pump diaphrams?

Reason asked; the low pressure pumps feed the throttle body, and if the diaphragms were bad, did you inspect the check-valves (clear discs in base)? If check-valves are bad, the pumps still won't pump well. If any particles from pumps went into throttle body they may be lodged/ restricting fuel going into needle valve float assy of throttle body. Plugs may appear wet, maybe more oil?

I can't think of another reason it might start after sitting for time. Unless starting problem is not spark related, but a fuel problem.

Good luck. Post back what you find out.

[bladenbullet]

the low pressure pumps were rebuilt...the check valves operate perfectly...I installed a pressure gauge on the high pressure side and could see the pressure coming up in pulses because the pumps weren't delivering enough fuel to the high pressure pump right away...once I put new diaphrams in the high pressure comes up immediately once the engine is cranked...there are no high pressure pump diaphrams...it is an electric vane type pump...the high pressure pump works well...it brings up pressure and maintains it....the low pressure pumps feed the vapor separator which in turn feeds the high pressure pump which in turn feeds the injection rail...the plugs come out wet on the no start so fuel delivery isn't the problem...


a spark check revealed no spark...I think it stems from low voltage while cranking...the rest period allows the batteries to recover and probably allows the already lubed cylinders to turn more freely...I noticed a difference in cranking speed the more I paid attention...I have to do more voltage drops but am currently charging the batteries to bring them to full charge before any more tests...they have sat a while during the refurb on the boat...I bought it in December and have been rewiring, replumbing and refitting most of the boat for several months...

the problem is electrical and I believe possibly low voltage is shutting down the spark from the ecu...we'll see when I have more time to fiddle with it...

I believe the manual is a seloc pdf version because it covers all the 2 stroke outboards in one manual...everything else has been spot on...that's why the wiring threw me for a loop....I did find the resistance specs for the ignition coils and gear & timing coils...the gear counting and timing coils both produce ac voltage during cranking so I don't think that is an issue...I have more reason to believe the ecu is shutting down due to low voltage...some simple tests will tell....I believe...

thanks for the reply...every little bit of information is helpful...for the record....I am a former automotive tech and current tech school instructor in automotive technology....I am familiar with diagnostics although 2 stroke outboards can get out there with their efi & ignition systems and how they work...what I am hoping when I come here is to find someone with some familiarity with the concern who might possibly lead me in the right direction...I do appreciate all answers...it helps me understand the whole picture a little better...I am going to look for a factory manual...they have always been a big help with my other outboards...the pdf version just came my way and has been accurate up to now...

[artdf175]

" spark check revealed no spark...I think it stems from low voltage while cranking...the rest period allows the batteries to recover...."

I would ask how old are the batteries?
Not that good on the 2 strokes but I know with the 4 strokes how sensitive the ECM is to voltage fluctuations.
So would make sure you have a battery that is new and has the correct cranking amps
Also, very important, to take all connections apart, clean any corrosion
Art

[bladenbullet]

" spark check revealed no spark...I think it stems from low voltage while cranking...the rest period allows the batteries to recover...."

I would ask how old are the batteries?
Not that good on the 2 strokes but I know with the 4 strokes how sensitive the ECM is to voltage fluctuations.
So would make sure you have a battery that is new and has the correct cranking amps
Also, very important, to take all connections apart, clean any corrosion
Art

the batteries came with the boat when I bought it used in December...had a hard time starting it when I looked at it...while I looked it over it sat and then started later...its a hit or miss situation...sometimes it starts right up...others its a struggle...once running its flawless and restarts effortlessly...

the boat has been totally rewired by me over the past couple of months...connections have been reworked in the original engine harness...the batteries are 27 series ac/delco but aren't holding a full charge...they will hold 12.6 volts for a long period of time without charging but the capacity is sacked...testing reveals the voltage dropping too low during cranking...they go into my shop for testing tomorrow but I have a feeling they are going to core heaven...my home charger takes them to about 3/4 charge then loses them somewhere and starts over again...damn pity cause they look like new...lol...I haven't put one together yet I haven't had to buy batteries for...I was hoping this one was going to change that...

the refurb has gone well and I have little to complain about...I beat the price down pretty good because of some engine concerns...from the looks of it when I get done i'm going to have a quite a nice boat at a reasonable cost to set up...

facebook album... https://www.facebook.com/tom.viele.5...1392076&type=3

[artdf175]

I think you will have solved the problem with a new battery
However if in your rewiring you didn't redo the wiring on the engine it would be good to check the positive main wire to the starter and the main ground wire
There have been reports before about these connect points
Sounds like you are doing things right
Let us know what you find with a new battery
Art

[bladenbullet]

I think you will have solved the problem with a new battery
However if in your rewiring you didn't redo the wiring on the engine it would be good to check the positive main wire to the starter and the main ground wire
There have been reports before about these connect points
Sounds like you are doing things right
Let us know what you find with a new battery
Art

I did rework the wiring on the engine...I was in there solving a corrosion problem in the trim relay connectors and went through the grounds and power wires...I have read the posts about those...but thanks....keep em coming...

I have a feeling the batteries are gonna fix it also....i'm just starting to get to that point where ive spent quite a bit and i'm hoping it slows down soon...like I believe thatll happen...lol...

[redlowrey]

It would have to be producing a crank signal otherwise the ecu would not be applying a ground on your injectors, maybe the rotating speed is to slow and the induced voltage is too low to fully charge the capacitor before it discharges into the primary winding's and you have spark but it is low.

[Solarman]

You might check the output of your magneto, to verify proper voltage going to rectifier (ac), and then check proper voltage from rectifier/regulator.

Yes, weak battery could affect, but don't think it would kill the spark, unless magneto, or rectifier isn't providing proper voltage/current.

Your pdf manual should help check these.

Good luck, post back how it's going.

[bladenbullet]

boom...like dat!...

new 1050 mca batteryand the engine cranks like a bear...the 27 series that were in the hole were 750's which could be considered light for a 200 hp engine (my merc 225 called for a 1k battery)...great cranking speed and immediate fire...

the 750's both tested in the 740s but seem to drop voltage a little faster than I would expect....i'm going to run one as the second....

incredible difference...you can hear it as soon as you turn the key...

charging is great...fuel pressure is instant now that the diaphragm pumps are rebuilt....with any luck this puppy is gonna be a runner...cleaned and repacked the trailer bearings this week and as soon as the new tires come in it should be ready for the water...

thanks for the input everyone...it all gets logged in the "if theres a problem" file....