Right head, wrong valves?

[Lunchmoney]

Had to replace head on 03 Df140. Bought a evinrude / Johnson part # 5034504 off ebay brand new. Came with cams and valves. Went to install it on the block and noticed it wasn't sitting flush. Valves are hitting top of pistons. Didn't tighten it down or anything so I haven't damaged it. Put a dab of assembly lube on the 2 valves sticking out the furthest and laid it back in place on the block. Sure enough it touches the top of the piston. This head looks identical to my old one but apparently the valves are a different length at minimum. Called Suzuki, no help. Was told Suzuki made these motors for johnrude back in those days. Can I just swap valves from the old head? Are the seats different? Springs? Anyone got any ideas? Take valves out of the new and compare to the old? Man what a nightmare this has been...

[catacom225]

DF140 head

Something sounds wrong, No Pistons should protrude past the surface of the block and no valves should protrude past the head surface. Try replacing new cams for old, make sure you don't turn it upside down as the adjustment shims will fall out. Inlet and exhaust cams are different , not sure is you can muck that up

[Lunchmoney]

Something sounds wrong, No Pistons should protrude past the surface of the block and no valves should protrude past the head surface. Try replacing new cams for old, make sure you don't turn it upside down as the adjustment shims will fall out. Inlet and exhaust cams are different , not sure is you can muck that up

Pistons do not protrude beyond block surface. Valves absolutely protrude beyond head surface. Going to get the micrometer out and start comparing new to old. Hopefully I can just swap cams and / or valves.

[Harper]

Hard to tell what you're saying. Are you trying to install with the cams in place? Which valves protrude? Valves on which cylinders? Which pistons in your block are at TDC? Are the cams in the head turned to the proper position? Before trying to set the heads on, did you put the crankchaft at TDC on #1 cylinder, and also index the cams to TDC for #1?
My questions assume the possibility that the piston and valves have an interference fit. I don't know if this is the case or not. But I'm sure that, whatever the circumstance, swapping valves will not work, for any number of reasons.

[Harper]

Let me start over......it is best that you NOT install the heads with the cams in place. Install with all valves closed. That means that the cams must be removed from the heads prior to installation. Then you have to have the cams properly positioned before installing them. I do think there is an interference fit between the valves and the pistons, meaning that if you try to open a valve on a cylinder where the piston is at or near TDC, those valves WILL hit the top of the piston.
Do you have a service manual? If not, I recommend you get one.
At the very least, go here http://boatinfo.no/lib/suzuki/manual...i_df.html#/166 and look at page 6-21

[Lunchmoney]

Hard to tell what you're saying. Which valves protrude? Valves on which cylinders? Which pistons in your block are at TDC? Are the cams in the head turned to the proper position? Before trying to set the heads on, did you put the crankchaft at TDC on #1 cylinder, and also index the cams to TDC for #1?
My questions assume the possibility that the piston and valves have an interference fit. I don't know if this is the case or not. But I'm sure that, whatever the circumstance, swapping valves will not work, for any number of reasons.

Think I've gotten it figured out... I'm hoping it's just a timing issue. Crank was turned so pistons 1 and 4 are at TDC, all the way out about flush with the surface of the block. The intake valves on #4 are touching the face of the #4 piston, just barely. They are the only valves protruding to any extent with the current cam positioning. I'll have to look again at the cams being indexed to #1 at TDC. Interference fit huh? So the valves are never fully extended at the same time the pistons are fully extended or else they'd hit. Makes sense...
The head I bought came with valves and cams already installed. I will have to remove the cams to install the 10 star-headed head bolts. I was just laying it on the block in place and noticed it wasn't sitting flush. Had I removed the cams before setting it on there, this wouldn't have occurred as the valves would have all been recessed. Then, I think when I went to install the cams after bolting the head on, done correctly it would have pushed valves on either #2 or 3 out, not #1 or 4. I'm in over my head I know!

[redlowrey]

Mate you have got yourself into more trouble than the early settlers, good luck, get your self a workshop manual and get that valve timing right you can put the head on with the cams in you have to have them locked in the right position. Did the head come fully assembled

[Lunchmoney]

I have it back together now. Basically I was having a brain fart. Cams weren't in TDC position. Rotated them so they were, and she sat right down flush. Removed the cams, installed the head, cams back in. and power head set back down on holder. All other components reinstalled and she fired up.
For anyone wondering, I have a factory service manual and have followed the disassembly / reassembly steps to the letter. Torque values included.