DF300 Fail Safe mode

[jmneed]

Hello, New member here. Glad to have found this site. So my 2008 DF300 goes into fail safe mode. It only happens when the throotle is put all the way down. The buzzer sounds and the tach shows "ck control unit comm" and code 7-5.

This started happening after the PTT switch on the remote throttle would not trim up the motor. Put in a new PTT switch, didnt work. ck'd wiring from switch and found loss of power near the main PIN connector. Instead of replacing the harness I just ran a new wire. Trim works now... I didnt know if my current issue is related to the scabbed trim wire so I Cut the new scabbed wire and it is still happening... The famous white wire seems to have a good connection and the engine runs great otherwise.

When it goes into fail safe mode the engine still runs but the wont move forward or reverse until i turn the key off and let it sit for a minute than restart and it's ok. This only happens when the trhottle lever is almost bottomed out forward. Ive had the boat for three years now and i have dropped the throttle all the way down lots of times and it has never done this before.

I have also done a recongig on the engine thru the tach, still happens...
If I had to guess by the way this is occuring I would say the Throttle position sensor but I think the 7-5 code is drive by wire. Seems the computer thinks the throttle is moving to far forward (out of range)??

any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

[artdf175]

In looking at my wiring schematic the PTT wiring in the remote is separate from the ECM and should not effect the engine from running
The only thing I see it shares a power source from the White Wire that is critical for the ECM to operate
I do not think it would be the 'throttle position sensor' that is creating your situation but would look at the 'shift position sensor' instead
Could be that this has come out of adjustment so it is not centered correctly

And didn't understand comment re not shifting forward or reverse as you indicate the happens at WOT as you are as far forward - unless this shift position sensor, being out of adjustment or has gone bad, is locking up .
This sounds more of a mechanical problem where the shift wire from the remote is connecting to the shift lever
Art

[jmneed]

DF300 Fail Safe

Thanks Art! Great info!!

The explanation of no forward/Reverse was explaining how the engine acts while in fail safe/mode. Probably didnt need to write that....

I agree with what you say. I tried to reposition the lever (removed large phillips screw) by moving it but the gear/notches do not allow for minor adjustment. There is also a small allen head screw on the side of the lever that adjusts the tension of the throttle. I did adjust that too, could that be causing an issue?

Maybe I upset the "shift position sensor" when I was working on the lever (PTT switch). Where is the location of the Shift position sensor? Is it possible this sensor needs to be reprogrammed(adjustment)?

Thank you so very much for your time and expertise. I hope I can provide input to help someone else. I also have a DF60 too...

Jeff

[artdf175]

Jeff not sure that you can make adjustments from the remote
The shift position sensor is located where the cables from the remote connect at the engine
Get a helper to shift while you watch how the shifter work
You should be able to see where it centers
Either it is off a small amount or the sensor could have gone bad
And I always suggest getting a service manual
Has service schedules and how to's a on every part

Art

[jmneed]

Hi Art, You mentioned to look where the cables go from the remote to the engine. I dont believe this engine has cables(shift cables?)

I downloaded the manual and I wanted to see what you thought about the "Lever position sensor" that is located in the Remote. Also since I have already found a bad wire (original PTT wire at PIN connector) Is it possible that I could have another shorted wire in that harness? Or the Lever position sensor itself? I would take it to a dealer but I dont have a trailer. I have a mobile guy that does some work for me. I just wonder if this is above his expertise?

Thanks, Jeff

[Solarman]

It might be possible that your dealer (the one experienced in your fly-by-wire controls) could have a loner trailer and could pick up your boat for this problem? Or he may have a mobile tech that could service this problem.

In answer to your question, yes it is very possible other wires in your electronic remote control are damaged/ affected. Most of us here (forum) are not that familiar with your electronic remote controls.

Good luck, post back when able to let us know how it's going.

[redlowrey]

Mate if the problem was not there before you touched the remote it sounds like you have upset the relationship between the twin potentiometers in the shifter. Even though the trim switch wiring has nothing to do with it if you pulled the shifter apart the from the splines it has not gone back together right. The ecm needs to see both signal voltages change as you move the shifter eg say from neutral it will see around 2.2 volts on the main pot and 2.8 on the second pot, when you move the shifter forward the shift position sensor will see a changing forward voltage from an other pot on the shift actuator motor and shift into gear signalled by the neutral switch, as you move the throttle forward the signal voltage from the main pot will increase to about 4.5 volts w. o. t and the sub pot will be around 0.5 volts. the throttle will open and close according to the signal voltages from the pots, there is another duel potentiometer on the throttle body and a dc motor which is duty cycled by the ecu. when you shift into reverse it is the opposite the sub pot will see 4.5 volts and the main pot will see 0.5 volts. I think when you pull the shifter back towards neutral there is a too bigger gap between the voltages bringing on that code. Buy a workshop manual and you will need two digital multimeters so you can check both voltages at ounce and some thin needles so slide the down the wiring loom plug. Good luck.

[artdf175]

Redlowery
you are right on.. I did not realize they were making fly-by-wire back in 2008, I was thinking that was a more recent option..
question? in that system would there still be a shift position sensor?
I am guessing there is an electronic relay that puts the engine in forward/neutral/reverse.. and seems like the shift position sensor would still need to be part of the system. and if for some reason this gets out of tolerance, it will trigger an error message.

Art

[jmneed]

There is a shift position sensor and a lever position sensor. I have no issues moving from neutral/forward/reverse.

My issue seems in the lever itself going out of range at WOT. I am leanining towards "lever poison sensor/wiring" not the shift sensor. I think you are right when you say I upset something when I took the lever off the spines... hopefully the new LPS is cheap enough to try...

[redlowrey]

Same deal mate, I thought you meant when you pulled the shifter towards neutral, don't buy a new one, just set your old one back up. Before you pull it apart check the voltage at wide open throttle, on the main pot you should see around 4.5 volts and the sub pot 0.5 volts, buy a manual it will have a wiring schematic, even if you buy two new pots you still might have to set them up. I think you will get a shock when you price one. I work on electronic throttle control on cars, and without a scan tool to see live data you are wasting your time, a lot more complicated than the Suzuki. Art that 7.5 code points toward the lever position sensor, just a fancy word for the shifter with two pots in it, the shift position sensor is just another pot which sends information eg a varying voltage back to the ecm and the bcm.

[jmneed]

RedLowrey- ***! I am learning a lot here!

So is there a relearn/programming that can be done if the LPS sensor is out of voltage range? Or do the pots need relearning. Or both. I thought I could just plug in the LPS and test run!

I looked at the manual and it shows how to check the voltage parameters but doesn't show reprogramming...

No sense in me throwing a LPS on it if I have to have it relearned w/a scanner. Through this process I have only...
1) took remote lever off to install new PTT switch on lever.
2) scabbed PTT wire direct. Bypassed wire harness.

What could have happened. Testing the voltages on the pots and so forth is one thing but if I have to reprogram, ugh! Might just borrow a trailer and take her in

[jmneed]

Thanks for the dialogue RedLowrey! I'm learning a lot!!

I find myself wondering why this happened from just #1removing the lever to install a new PTT remote switch(didn't fix) #2 scabbing a new wire for the "up" PTT (bypassing the harness)

So if I understand correctly, I may be able to reprogram the LPS to the two pots? It could also be a failure in either pot,LPS or the wiring. Doing the voltage meter test is the key. Question though? At the end of the day am I still going to need the dealer to "set it up"/program the system? I would rather not do the diagnostics and so forth if I have to end up taking it in to the dealer...
I really do appreciate your kind help. Jeff

[redlowrey]

You must have miss under stood me, you wont have to reprogram any thing, when you pulled the shifter apart the two pots have not lined up in the right correlation with each other when you put it back together, and as you move the shifter to w.o.t. the voltage differences are out of spec with the bcm and ecm. There should be some sort of reference marks on the pots so you can line them up properly, When I was talking about the scan tool I meant I can see all the live data happening on a screen in front of me without connecting scopes or meters up the throttle or app pedal. This is why I said check the voltage at wide open throttle the main pot should have 4.5 volts on it and the sup pot 0.5 volts. Mate a pot or potentiometer is a variable resister it has a five volt reference voltage, a signal voltage, and a ground as the resistance changes so does the voltage, in other words as you move your shifter one voltage will rise and the other will fall.

[jmneed]

Hey Red, That makes complete sense to me. The only part that Is When I took the lever off it was fit onto larger splines. The lever is put back exactly in the same position. I didn't see or take off any pots. Actually I've looked at a diagram and don't see them. I've since sent back the LPS. Thanks again!