Getting my head around N2K....???

[a7ewizard]

Greetings all! I just found this site and will make a brief introduction before I get to my topic.

I own 2 Pro-Lines. My 2006 24 Super Sport center console is kept in Baja Mexico. It has a DF225 running a Rev 4 propeller. I bought this package used in 2008. I had the ECU updates completed in Mexico (as I learned about them). The engine has been very reliable, just 2 problems. The IAC valve failed and the gear case was repaired (after a long period of inactivity it would not shift due to corrosion and water in the gear oil). About 1300 hours.

I am looking to re-power my 1998 251 walk-around with a DF300AP (an I/O to bracketed outboard conversion). So, I am doing my homework with regard to Suzuki engine controls and displays and new RayMarine electronics.

Am I correct to assume that the Suzuki side is a stand alone N2K network (Suzuki website doesn't allow me to view installation manuals)? Is the 12V source connected to this network through the engine key switch. So, when the key is "On" it energizes the C10 display, engine control panel, troll mode panel and engine electronics? Does the positive to this switch have fuse protection or is the network protected elsewhere?

Currently, my trim tabs are energized by the ignition key. Does the Suzuki key switch allow for this (posts or tabs in back)?

I would like to eliminate all round dials on my helm. How do you re-wire the fuel gage to the C10 display?

Next, I intend to add a new MFD, radar, transducer, and auto-pilot. All with N2K connectivity. Can the Suzuki network sufficiently power the electronic network by connecting them? Is this how it is commonly done? I believe I read in the RayMarine manuals that there should only be a single 12V source to the network.

Thanks, Warren

[Moonlighter]

Hi Warren and welcome to the forum.

Ive written a sticky thread at the top of the forum that explains quite a bit about the Suzuki networks, so have a read of that as it will help you get your head around the whole setup.

The whole idea of a NMEA2000 network is to enable integration of multiple data sources. So yes you can have one network that includes the Suzuki engine data plus radar plus all your MFD's etc.

As to power sources for the network, there are several choices and options available.

It is common to have the network power sourced from a spare connector on the engine harness, which means that displays such as the C10 will turn on whenever the engine is turned on.

However, some people want to be able to still have the network powered on when the engine is off, and there are clever dual or even quad power nodes available that can connect to multiple power sources but which only use one of power sources as required. There are also power splitters available that effectively separate the network into 2 "sides" so that the engine data side is separated from the rest and can run independently.

So it is kind of a matter of personal preference to some degree.

Your other questions:

re trim tabs - yes.

Re fuel gauge: you can convert your analogue fuel gauge to NMEA2000 and display tank level on the C10 or MFD by connecting the tank sender to a "Fluid level sensor" from Lowrance or Simrad. Fairly easy to do. Has to be calibrated of course.

Re connecting everything radar etc up to one network - yes, that's normal.

Hope these answers, plus the reference material in the sticky thread, helps you get your head around this stuff.

Let us know if you need more info.

[artdf175]

Warren That is a good list of questions
The N2K system is independently powered
Moonlighter did a 'sticky' thread at the top of page with regards to the N2K system which may give you additional info
The ignition key powers the engine control module. The remote trim is wired to a relay independently of the ignition switch and independent of the trim switch on the port side of the engine
The N2K can be looked at a connector for the signals from the various sources.
Each of your electronics are powered off the power feed to the dash or your electric panel. The signal wire from the various inputs are connected to the N2K backbone.
The engine is connected to N2K via an engine interface cable. The MFD is then configured to read the signals the engine puts out
The power source to the ignition is via a "white wire" that has an inline fuse
Someone with a C10 will have to answer the question on its power source. My Lowrance is powered off a fused switch on my dash
Hope this helps
Art

[a7ewizard]

I appreciate the quick responses.

OK, the engine interface cable powers the network. My reading tells me that with the engine key on, the C10 display can't be turned off.

Currently, my radar and gps/fish finder are separate units. The radar just dumped and the other is pretty old but works well (Furuno GP7000). Reason for an upgrade to a networked system and my questions...

Looking at the RM eS 98 MFD. It has 2 network ports and a transducer connection in the back of the unit. I plan to connect the radar output and transducer directly to the the MFD. The network will input to the remaining port. I want to use the MFD for a back-up engine display. Question?: With the key turned off, the MFD, sonar, and radar can be operated independently? Useful for drift fishing or at anchor. And, no information is shared beyond the MFD.

Turn the key on (energizes the network), and all info is shared including navigation data to the autopilot components, engine data to the C10 and MFD, fuel level to C10, etc.

Have I got this right?

[Moonlighter]

I appreciate the quick responses.

OK, the engine interface cable powers the network. My reading tells me that with the engine key on, the C10 display can't be turned off.

Currently, my radar and gps/fish finder are separate units. The radar just dumped and the other is pretty old but works well (Furuno GP7000). Reason for an upgrade to a networked system and my questions...

Looking at the RM eS 98 MFD. It has 2 network ports and a transducer connection in the back of the unit. I plan to connect the radar output and transducer directly to the the MFD. The network will input to the remaining port. I want to use the MFD for a back-up engine display. Question?: With the key turned off, the MFD, sonar, and radar can be operated independently? Useful for drift fishing or at anchor. And, no information is shared beyond the MFD.

Turn the key on (energizes the network), and all info is shared including navigation data to the autopilot components, engine data to the C10 and MFD, fuel level to C10, etc.

Have I got this right?

There are some"terminology" things for you to get right so we are all talking the same language

Firstly, the "engine interface" is the cable that connects the engine to the network. It is connected to one of the T pieces in the network. The other end is plugged into the harness. This cable sends engine data to the network, but it does not supply power to the network.

The network power supply is a separate "power node" cable that you can connect to any source of power - and one of those is to the engine wiring harness behind the dash - just find an unused connector that is live when the key is turned on. Then connect the negative wire to the negative busbar.

Wired this way, yes, whenever the engine key is turned on, the C10 will also be on and will show engine data.

(See here for a NMEA2000 starter kit - it is a very cost effective way to buy the core compliments needed for your network, and includes a standard power node: http://www.westmarine.com/buy/lowran...-kit--10855948)

Yes, the network only powers simple devices such as the C10, therefore, other devices such as the radar and Raymarine still must have their own separate power cables connected as they would normally be, and they will therefore be unaffected when the engine key is off.

And yes, once the engine is turned on, the network is on, so any devices attached to it will be able to share data.

If you want the other devices such as radar and MFD to be able to share data when the engine is off, you could use a dual power node in place of the standard node - you would connect one set of wires to the engine harness as previously mentioned, and the other set to a source such as to piggyback it on the MFD power connection. It will then automatically switch to the second source when the engine key is off, so the network will always have power and be able to share data.

The only thing with this approach is that the C10 display would always stay on - it would just have dashes instead of engine data. That seems to bother some people but not others. It really is of no consequence other than the C10 backlights being on.

Cheers

[ChrigelKarrer]

I have 3 DF300AP on 2 boats and in April i installed 2 of them on my Venture 34.
Moonlighter and Artdf175 wrote already every thing rgarding your questions,
i just want to tell you how my system is working.

Twin DF300AP, 2 x 2 Optima red top batteries on 4 on/off switches.

My NMEA2000 Networks is made as follows:
2 Suzuki Engine Interfaces to deliver Suzuki Engine Data to the Network
1 Garmin 7610 XSV Chart plotter + Depth sounder (on lower station)
1 Garmin 70DV chart plotter + depth sounder ( Upper station,interfaced by Ethernet)
1 Garmin GMR18 xHD Radar connected by Ethernet
1 Garmin VHF 200 radio (on the lower station)
3 Suzuki SMIS gauges (on the lower station)
3 Suzuki SMIS gauges (on the upper station)

I will install two Simrad GO7 MFD (one down and one up) instead the SMIS gauges to show engine data as they don't work right with the 2016 DF300AP engine.

I have all devices and gauges on one NMEA bus, when i turn on the battery switches NMEA bus get power and all devices will get NMEA2000 data and the SMIS gauges start working.
My Garmin instruments are on independent power switches, one for the radar and one for all other electronics while the SMIS instruments get power from the NMEA2000 bus.

There is a power separator from Garmin to create 2 power wise independent NMEA2000 networks so you can separate engine and instrument network.

The NMEA 2000 power isolator is useful to ensure proper installation of the NMEA 2000 network in separating different power sources that could power the bus. Some NMEA 2000 capable engines can potentially provide power to the NMEA 2000 bus. The NMEA 2000 power isolator is useful because it makes sure the NMEA 2000 power from the engines and system power are kept separate.

BTW: You can do a power isolater this by your self cutting the 2 power wire inside the NMEA2000 4 wire cable.

Chris

[a7ewizard]

There are some"terminology" things for you to get right so we are all talking the same language

Firstly, the "engine interface" is the cable that connects the engine to the network. It is connected to one of the T pieces in the network. The other end is plugged into the harness. This cable sends engine data to the network, but it does not supply power to the network.

The network power supply is a separate "power node" cable that you can connect to any source of power - and one of those is to the engine wiring harness behind the dash - just find an unused connector that is live when the key is turned on. Then connect the negative wire to the negative busbar.

Thanks this clarifies the engine wiring layout for me.

Chris, nice to know about the power isolator. My system will be much simpler than yours so a single bus power source is all I expect to do. Your system illustrates the amazing flexibility afforded by NMEA2000.

Warren

[Moonlighter]

I have 3 DF300AP on 2 boats and in April i installed 2 of them on my Venture 34.
Moonlighter and Artdf175 wrote already every thing rgarding your questions,
i just want to tell you how my system is working.

Twin DF300AP, 2 x 2 Optima red top batteries on 4 on/off switches.

My NMEA2000 Networks is made as follows:
2 Suzuki Engine Interfaces to deliver Suzuki Engine Data to the Network
1 Garmin 7610 XSV Chart plotter + Depth sounder (on lower station)
1 Garmin 70DV chart plotter + depth sounder ( Upper station,interfaced by Ethernet)
1 Garmin GMR18 xHD Radar connected by Ethernet
1 Garmin VHF 200 radio (on the lower station)
3 Suzuki SMIS gauges (on the lower station)
3 Suzuki SMIS gauges (on the upper station)

I will install two Simrad GO7 MFD (one down and one up) instead the SMIS gauges to show engine data as they don't work right with the 2016 DF300AP engine.

I have all devices and gauges on one NMEA bus, when i turn on the battery switches NMEA bus get power and all devices will get NMEA2000 data and the SMIS gauges start working.
My Garmin instruments are on independent power switches, one for the radar and one for all other electronics while the SMIS instruments get power from the NMEA2000 bus.

There is a power separator from Garmin to create 2 power wise independent NMEA2000 networks so you can separate engine and instrument network.

BTW: You can do a power isolater this by your self cutting the 2 power wire inside the NMEA2000 4 wire cable.

Chris

Chris - just be aware that by replacing the SMIS displays with the GO7's, you will lose the ability to show any of the engine's fault codes. You will get alarms such as temp and oil pressure, but not fault codes used for diagnostics and things like oil change reminders.

Here in Aus when Suzuki used the Garmin GMI10 engine data displays, the same issue arose, and they got round it by installing a engine monitor display that included the 3 warning lights for each engine. They looked similar to this gauge:
http://www.brownspoint.com/store/pc/...e-32p63817.htm

Cheers
Grant

[ChrigelKarrer]

Hi Moonlighter,
i am aware of that there is no MFD who will show outboard error codes and the oil change reminders are easily to hear ...

I have the SDS system up and running and could scan the engines every now and then.

This multi-error gauge would do the trick as well, BUT, as i have already troubles with my SMIS gauges, i am not sure if this panel is working or also show ghost errors.

I fear that i will buy either two (one down and one up,one gauge for both engines) C10 or GM10 gauges to make sure that everything works.
I would prefer the GM10 gauges, but nobody can tell me if the will work on my engines or not.
So i probably need to get the C10 gauges and pray that the don't fog up.

Chris