DF200SS making oil at 14 hours

[th365thli]

Hey guys,

I've got a 2018 DF200SS (DF200A) on a bass boat. I bought it new. At around 12 hours I noticed it was making oil. It's definitely fuel, I can smell it on the dipstick. The first time I wasn't sure so I changed the oil. At 14 hours I was pretty sure so I changed the oil again. I already know what people are going to ask. Yes, I followed the break in procedure stated in the manual very religiously.

Reading online and talking to my mechanic, I know that babying a new 4 stroke or excessive idling is not good for the engine. It needs to get up to temperature to get the rings to seat. While I don't do excessive idling, I haven't really been pushing her very much. The mechanic told me to run it hard. I have never seen my motor go above 124 F temp wise, even at WOT, coolest running motor I've ever had. Wonder if that contributes to it as well.

However, reading some topics here, some people are adamant that it can't be a ring seating issue, even if the motor is new. It has to be a VST or fuel pump issue. I thought all 4 strokes were prone to making oil if the rings don't seat. What say you guys?

[th365thli]

I should add, I got the motor in late September and most of my running up to this point has been in cool winter waters. 45-50 degrees.

[artdf175]

the temperature is right on what it should be. it is supplied with a 50 degree (C) thermostat = 122 (F)
I would not think the low pressure fuel pump, being new, would be doing this.
seems most problems posted here have to deal with the float valve in the VST being out of adjustment or sticking open
the overflow is into the oil pan
being under warranty the dealer should check this-- and he chooses to run it "Hard", have him do it
have you had any minutes at WOT at this point?
Art

[D'oh999]

My 2017 140 Made oil in the first 20 hours also. After the first service, and some hard running, it hasn't made or lost any since.

Drive it "Like the Bank owns it"

[th365thli]

the temperature is right on what it should be. it is supplied with a 50 degree (C) thermostat = 122 (F)
I would not think the low pressure fuel pump, being new, would be doing this.
seems most problems posted here have to deal with the float valve in the VST being out of adjustment or sticking open
the overflow is into the oil pan
being under warranty the dealer should check this-- and he chooses to run it "Hard", have him do it
have you had any minutes at WOT at this point?
Art

At the time of the issue I've had minimal minutes at WOT. I had got it up to the rev limiter a few times but always back down. Hence, I didn't really run it hard. As stated before, I completed the break in process to the letter, but Suzuki break in is vague. You could theoretically idle the entire time and still follow it. Obviously that's not desirable.

Last Friday I ran it pretty hard, at sustained WOT. This was right after I changed the oil so it had fresh oil instead of gas diluted oil. I'm out of town and I didn't get a chance to check the oil, but I'll be monitoring it. Good to know that the temperature is within spec. I know some people switch out thermostats but I definitely won't.

[th365thli]

My 2017 140 Made oil in the first 20 hours also. After the first service, and some hard running, it hasn't made or lost any since.

Drive it "Like the Bank owns it"

I figure that's part of the issue. I would cruise with it but not really go WOT. Hopefully some hard running until my 20 hour service fixes the issue.

[artdf175]

when you say you got it up to the rev limiter-- that makes me nervous
What RPM level were you hitting?
Im not sure on the 200 but would think the top end should be 6000- maybe 6200
If you are running more than that then I am guessing the prop size is not correct for your boat
Art

[th365thli]

when you say you got it up to the rev limiter-- that makes me nervous
What RPM level were you hitting?
Im not sure on the 200 but would think the top end should be 6000- maybe 6200
If you are running more than that then I am guessing the prop size is not correct for your boat
Art

Why does that make you nervous? The purpose of the rev limiter is to make sure revs don't go over a certain RPM, in fact if I wasn't able to hit my rev limiter at all that would mean I'm over propped. My old prop was a 26 pitch 4 blade and it was hitting rev limiter very easily, indicating I was underpropped. I switched to a 3 blade 28 pitch and now it just barely touches the limiter with some precise trimming. That's 6100 rpm I believe. I typically can get it up to 5800-6000 without much effort. This is with an above average load (myself, 4 agm or lead acid batteries, full tank of gas, fishing gear). Based on the numbers above I believe I'm propped correctly. Loads change and I believe I have leeway on both ends.

[Moonlighter]

Why does that make you nervous? The purpose of the rev limiter is to make sure revs don't go over a certain RPM, in fact if I wasn't able to hit my rev limiter at all that would mean I'm over propped. My old prop was a 26 pitch 4 blade and it was hitting rev limiter very easily, indicating I was underpropped. I switched to a 3 blade 28 pitch and now it just barely touches the limiter with some precise trimming. That's 6100 rpm I believe. I typically can get it up to 5800-6000 without much effort. This is with an above average load (myself, 4 agm or lead acid batteries, full tank of gas, fishing gear). Based on the numbers above I believe I'm propped correctly. Loads change and I believe I have leeway on both ends.

At 6000 - 6200 you are not hitting the rev limiter.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding about terminology here - there is a max recommended rev range on the one hand, and an electronic rev limiter on the other hand.

At 6/62 revs your engine is nicely propped to be at the very top end of the recommended rev range.

The actual rev limiter typically cuts in at about 6400 maybe a touch more. its designed to prevent you from damaging the engine.

At that point the engine will run really badly, like a race car engine that has the pit lane limiter activated, and you will get an alarm and the ecu will cut the revs back to about 2000rpm, and you will need to put the engine back into neutral for a couple of seconds to clear the alarm and allow the engine to rev normally again. Its not really something you want to be doing very often, and if you are actually hitting that limit and causing the limiter to activate when running in smooth unaerated water, then you are indeed underpropped.

Anyway back to the point - if you are making oil, particularly enough that its noticeable after just a couple of hours running, and yet are also regularly running at high revs, then as Art said it would be definitely worth having the VST float level checked.

We see very few reports of Suzuki 4 strokes “making oil” with the cause being blow-by from badly seated rings, that seems to be a special feature of the Yamaha 4 strokes more than any other make!

[th365thli]

At 6000 - 6200 you are not hitting the rev limiter.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding about terminology here - there is a max recommended rev range on the one hand, and an electronic rev limiter on the other hand.

At 6/62 revs your engine is nicely propped to be at the very top end of the recommended rev range.

The actual rev limiter typically cuts in at about 6400 maybe a touch more. its designed to prevent you from damaging the engine.

At that point the engine will run really badly, like a race car engine that has the pit lane limiter activated, and you will get an alarm and the ecu will cut the revs back to about 2000rpm, and you will need to put the engine back into neutral for a couple of seconds to clear the alarm and allow the engine to rev normally again. Its not really something you want to be doing very often, and if you are actually hitting that limit and causing the limiter to activate when running in smooth unaerated water, then you are indeed underpropped.

Anyway back to the point - if you are making oil, particularly enough that its noticeable after just a couple of hours running, and yet are also regularly running at high revs, then as Art said it would be definitely worth having the VST float level checked.

We see very few reports of Suzuki 4 strokes “making oil” with the cause being blow-by from badly seated rings, that seems to be a special feature of the Yamaha 4 strokes more than any other make!

Thanks for clearing it up Moonlighter.

What I mistook for hitting the rev limiter was me actually reaching my top RPMs, which just so happened to reach the upper bound of the WOT range (6100 rpm). I guess this means I'm propped correctly then.

I want to be clear though, that I was NOT running regularly at high revs. Prior to Friday, I was being very cautious. I would mostly cruise, and if I ever took it to WOT it was just to check my top speed, I would bring it down immediately after. Friday was the first time after break in where I decided I should push her to get the rings to seat. And even then I wasn't running sustained for WOT for more than 10 minutes. I didn't get a chance to check the oil afterwards but I will be monitoring closely. Silver lining like I said is that I guess I'm propped right. My previous prop I would get to 6100 easily and I guess I was subconsciously letting up. I have yet to actually get the rev limit alarm so I think I'm okay for now.....

[Triton2300]

I have a DF 300 2019. I had the engine set up. The Marina told me they put 2 hours on it. When I first started it I let it run until it came up the temp. Around 130 degrees. About 5 minutes. I planned the boat off and ran it up to about 3500. I varied the speed between 3200 and 4000 for the next 3 hours. In that time I probably slowed the boat down off plan and took off 25 times. So the engine was put under load at least 25 times. Next trip out, same procedure except I ran her up to 5000 a number of times with a few wide open shofs (20 seconds). Third trip around ten hours I ran her steady between 3500 and 6100. Anything above 5500 I let her run about a minute. Each trip out I must have pulled her off plane 20 to 30 times then back on.
After about 25 hours I leave her open for at least 5 minutes.
i feel that was a pretty good breakin because I varied the speeds and was consistently putting the engine under load taking off and slowing down. Now has 48 hours and I run her like I stole her!

[th365thli]

Just an update, was gone on vacation

I mentioned I had changed the oil and I ran it harder. After I came back from vacation I was able to check the oil level, and it still rose a little bit. Smelled the dipstick, definitely fuel. I then ran it one more time, mostly cruising from 4000-5000 rpm. Check the dipstick the next day and the oil level remained the same.

Maybe the rings finally seated? Maybe a gremlin with the VST went away? Who knows, but I took it to the dealer this morning for the 1st service and mentioned everything regarding the making oil issue. They'll investigate and hopefully I'll know more by the end of the week.

The opinion here still seems divided on if Suzuki gets making oil issues from lack of ring seating. Some posters claim their issues went away after some hours, indicating a ring issue. Others are still adamant that Suzukis don't make oil from bad ring seating, and it must be from the VST or something else.

[th365thli]

Final update

The dealer couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. He checked the oil and said there might have been a little fuel, but nothing that stuck out to him. He said initially 4 strokes tend to make a little bit of oil. And that even though I'm passed the 10 hour official break in process, that the motor was still kind of being broken in. He told me my running temp is a bit cool, and that I should lean on it (run it harder) and vary rpms to get it up to temp. This should burn off any fuel and help seat the rings. I told him I tend to be a bit paranoid and careful with my things. He said the hours readout agreed with my statement. Lots of time around the 2000 rpm and lower, with some in the 4000, and barely any at WOT. He told me to lean on it, and that these motors are designed to run hard. Suzuki makes motorcycles that go up to 15000 rpm, so these outboards are relatively slow turning. Don't be afraid to run it!

Given that this is an authorized Suzuki dealer with a good reputation and several Suzuki service awards, and that they have my info in case any warranty situations come up, I'm going to follow his advice. I'm glad it wasn't anything in the VST or my fuel injectors. He told me to watch the oil, if it goes up or down on the dipstick a little, that's okay. I know some people here might have other opinions.

[Triton2300]

That’s right. Run it. Don’t be hesitant to open her up!