Resolving Vapor Lock Issue-2007 DF200

[artdf175]

not quite brain surgery.. but..
the question then would be.. what chart plotter do you have?
in many instances your transducer.. vhf (DSC -calling function) are attached to the chart plotter with a NEMA cable system.. plug and play.
IF that is the case.. you can simply add another "T" connector to the system - connect in an engine interface cable and set up a page on the chart plotter that pulls in the engine functions..

The chart plotter, being a key factor, if it has the ability to have this function.

[Lostsoul58]

not quite brain surgery.. but..
the question then would be.. what chart plotter do you have?
in many instances your transducer.. vhf (DSC -calling function) are attached to the chart plotter with a NEMA cable system.. plug and play.
IF that is the case.. you can simply add another "T" connector to the system - connect in an engine interface cable and set up a page on the chart plotter that pulls in the engine functions..

The chart plotter, being a key factor, if it has the ability to have this function.

It's a Garmin 3210. Not sure the age of my motor & Garmin will have the capabilities?

[Lostsoul58]

So to all who replaced fuel hoses on their motors...
Did you order the molded hose that terminates at the low pressure fuel filter assembly or...did you use standard 3/8 marine fuel hose?
If so did you have to reroute in order to eliminate kinks/twists?
That's what I did but not really happy with the route that was necessary.
Covered the hose with a high performance heat sleeve and hope it won't cause even more potential for vapor lock.
I'm getting tired of this...
It's like a damn string trimmer...you work on it more than you use it.
I've read where people hate Sea Fox boats.
I haven't had the first problem with the boat.
It is however what's hanging on the back that has made me lose confidence in my rig.

[Striperk9]

Did you fix the problem?

New member, just found this forum. Could not find an Introduction forum but what I have is in my signature. (2005 ProKat with DF200)

Anyway, I have an issue very similar to Lostsoul's: First start of the day everything is great. Starts fine, quick out of the hole, runs great.

Problem is after trolling a while and I pull everything up and push the throttle forward to go back to the dock, it will not get onto plane and I can barely get to 3000 RPM. If I turn off ignition, wait about 10 seconds, crank back up and take off, everything is fine. Will reach top speed if needed, no surges, no cutting out, no problem.

The first time I noticed this was about a month ago. I'm in North Carolina, and temperatures here this time of year are about 90-100 air, 80-90 water.

I called Suzuki mechanic and he says this is normal for this time of year, just pump the primer bulb before I start off and it should be fine.
Well, mine did not have a primer bulb. Actually a fuel pump in the tanks just like an auto. He says, buy one and give it a try, should work, just get a name brand and not a cheapo.

I found a Suzuki primer bulb, installed. Same result as before.

Frustrated, I decided to do a search, found this forum and here I am...

Little more history: I bought this boat last year. Was in Hinesville, Georgia. Paid for the previous owner to take to a nearby Suzuki dealer for a checkup. Mechanic sent me a report: No codes present, no failures (ever), never been in Fail Safe mode. 295 hours actual run time. Pretty much a clean bill of health. Filters had been changed at around 280 hours when PO decided to list. He had good documentation to match what he stated.

So, just curious if you guys have any suggestions. And if Lost Souls ever fixed his problem. I installed water pump kit and thermostats since I've had it. I am fairly mechanically inclined. I have owned boats and worked on engines most of my life. Grew up on a farm, you fix stuff or you don't eat....

Thanks for your help. Will try to do a formal intro when I find that forum. I'm also on The Hull Truth, same user name.

[MuskyTime]

Same issue with my 2007 175 happening after running and gunning during the day, once in a while I will get vapor lock after start up and throttle advance. I just live with it! Pump the bulb start and go.

[Lostsoul58]

Hey SK9,
My engine stills does the same thing. Nothing changed. I'm in Little River SC so yes it's hotter than hell's backlog. I'll never own another Suzuki product if I can unload this one.
I hope you figure this out.
I wish you luck my friend.

[Striperk9]

pretty hard to pull skiers with this problem

I could live with this in most of my fishing situations. But, I also have to please the admiral and the rest of the family by pulling tubes and skiers. Pretty tough to do this, and very frustrating for both the driver and the skier.

The other post from 2011 mentioned a secondary fuel pump and pressure regulator. That was for the DF140, which is a 4 banger. I would like to know if there's a similar fix (heck, I'd even take the Band-Aid) for the V-6.

Mine does not seem to be a cooling issue. Impeller is new and tell tale is strong.

Fuel is non-ethanol and everything pre and post filters is clean. I don't think it could be the VST but I have not tried to drain that yet. I would appreciate a "How To" on that.

[Moonlighter]

A few years ago I was having similar issues to what youve all described with my DF115, and together with my mate who is the local Suzuki dealer and Master level technician, we were exploring various theories about the issue.

One theory was this vapour lock issue. My dealer had come across the issue a few times, as you know, things here in Australia can get very hot temps indeed. Plus we had both read about the issue on forums and seen the solution offered by Suzuki in US re the electric fuel pump.

We were about to order and fit one of these small electric fuel pumps to the fuel line, when we found the cause in my case was related to the NMEA2000 engine network, and an issue specific to the 115 series engines at the time.

Thats another story.....

But anyway, here is a link to the little electric fuel pump we were going to install, as recommended by my dealer who had used it on one or two other boats to solve the vapour lock issue, so i will leave it up you if you decide to go that way. These ones are reputed to be very good quality, but of course you may be able to find simlar spec versions locally in your area that will do the job just as well. This one is rated for the marine environment too.

FUELFLOW 015M

Hope this helps guys. Not a very expensive thing to do, and if it solves the probem, would be well worth the expense.

Cheers

Grant

[Lostsoul58]

Thanks Grant.

Sounds like a pump that would maintain just enough fuel pressure/fuel in the line to quickly eliminate the heat generated vapor.

My only concern would be that the pump would need to run only when the engine runs.

Back in the early days of modern fuel injection the fuel pumps were wired to run only when there was oil pressure...thus only when engine was running.

That way if there was a stall/crash/etc. fuel wouldn't continue to pump/flood and cause a fire.

I'll give this pump some thought...

I've by-passed the vapor purge valve but it didn't help....

Even added a "hot rod" heat shield sleeve over the entire fuel supply line under the cowl but it didn't help...

The fuel tank vent is a 3/4 hose to a Perko vent that is wide the hell open....

My Opinion..The Suzuki Outboard has a major fuel system design flaw that Suzuki chose to ignore...

[nelbur]

Thanks Grant.

Sounds like a pump that would maintain just enough fuel pressure/fuel in the line to quickly eliminate the heat generated vapor.

My only concern would be that the pump would need to run only when the engine runs.

Back in the early days of modern fuel injection the fuel pumps were wired to run only when there was oil pressure...thus only when engine was running.

That way if there was a stall/crash/etc. fuel wouldn't continue to pump/flood and cause a fire.

I'll give this pump some thought...

I've by-passed the vapor purge valve but it didn't help....

Even added a "hot rod" heat shield sleeve over the entire fuel supply line under the cowl but it didn't help...

The fuel tank vent is a 3/4 hose to a Perko vent that is wide the hell open....

My Opinion..The Suzuki Outboard has a major fuel system design flaw that Suzuki chose to ignore...

Suzuki's approach was to use an electric fuel pump AND a pressure regulator set at about 3 psi. The pressure regulator is likely needed to avoid over-pressuring the float in the vapor eliminator chamber. Suzuki has come out with a new low pressure pump with a V in the part number for the 140, but I have never been able to find out if the V had anything to do with the vapor lock problem. I have the problem in the summer when drift fishing, but pumping the bulb up after starting the engine, gets rid of the vapor. My fuel line is sandwiched between the engine and the intake manifold. I am thinking about re-routing the line to go low below the engine and up to the low pressure pump to avoid the hot engine.

[Moonlighter]

It would be simple to wire the little electric fuel pump into the engine's ignition circuit so it only comes on when the key is turned on. Thats how we were going to do it, i seem to recall.

Re the regulator, I can see whay that might be required, depending on what pump ypu used. But my mechanic didnt mention anything about that at the time, he just said we would use a low pressure pump such as that one in my link.

Note: It seems that the little pump in my link has some inbuilt pressure regulation system to hold it between 1-4psi - But I am not an expert by any means though so you would want to investigate that further. If you have a good local mechanic you could run the proposed solution past them to ask if the regulator was necessary when using that specific pump or not.

Obviously since they changed the rail design later there were some issues. But even back in 2010/11 when I was looking into the issues I was having with my 115, the reports about vapour lock were not all that common, many people had no issues, it was a minority. Possibly one of those things re how far the lift from the tank was etc, so partly an engine design issue, partly installation on the specific boat.

[Lostsoul58]

What about if there was a fire and/or breech the ignition switch is in the Run position? Pump is still powered up and pumping. It needs to be wired to run only if the engine is running. Via oil pressure switch activation. Too risky for me. What causes this issue? Heat? We are smart so let's figure this out. If outside air could be introduced into the cowl then the heat would rush out much like a ridge vent does on a home roof. How can we create a lower vent in the cowl that also doesn't allow for water intrusion? I think this would eliminate the vapor lock issue. Filters, pumps, fuel lines, bulbs, and additives didn't help a thing.

[Moonlighter]

What about if there was a fire and/or breech the ignition switch is in the Run position? Pump is still powered up and pumping. It needs to be wired to run only if the engine is running. Via oil pressure switch activation. Too risky for me. What causes this issue? Heat? We are smart so let's figure this out. If outside air could be introduced into the cowl then the heat would rush out much like a ridge vent does on a home roof. How can we create a lower vent in the cowl that also doesn't allow for water intrusion? I think this would eliminate the vapor lock issue. Filters, pumps, fuel lines, bulbs, and additives didn't help a thing.

Risk = likelihood x consequences.

Likelihood of a fuel related/fuelled fire in a situation where the ignition key CANNOT be turned off?? Add in the unlikely presence of an ignition source with a pump installed under the gunwales away from the engine heat? Negligible. Score = 0

Consequences: any fuel related fire has bad consequences. Score 9

Likelihood 0 x 9 = 0. Risk rating: Very low to negligible.

Even the engine's own low pressure fuel pump is running whenever the key is turned on. So the added risk of installing the separate pump is very little extra from what already exists.

Dont make this overcomplicated or imagine risks that arent there.

[redlowrey]

Thanks Grant.

Sounds like a pump that would maintain just enough fuel pressure/fuel in the line to quickly eliminate the heat generated vapor.

My only concern would be that the pump would need to run only when the engine runs.

Back in the early days of modern fuel injection the fuel pumps were wired to run only when there was oil pressure...thus only when engine was running.

That way if there was a stall/crash/etc. fuel wouldn't continue to pump/flood and cause a fire.

I'll give this pump some thought...

I've by-passed the vapor purge valve but it didn't help....

Even added a "hot rod" heat shield sleeve over the entire fuel supply line under the cowl but it didn't help...

The fuel tank vent is a 3/4 hose to a Perko vent that is wide the hell open....

My Opinion..The Suzuki Outboard has a major fuel system design flaw that Suzuki chose to ignore...

'''''Back in the early days the reason GM used that system was in case the fuel pump relay failed the fuel pump would keep running via the oil pressure switch. You might have a fuel problem but it may not be from vapour lock.

[Lostsoul58]

'''''Back in the early days the reason GM used that system was in case the fuel pump relay failed the fuel pump would keep running via the oil pressure switch. You might have a fuel problem but it may not be from vapour lock.

Ok then that is contrary to what was taught at the GM Training Center class that I attended back in the early days. They taught that the oil pressure switch circuit was used so fuel would not be pumped while the engine was not running. Power runs though the relay in the "Start" position for power to the pump until the oil pressure switch circuit takes over...but then again that was the message from the GM Training Center back then. Obviously you know they are incorrect.