Blank SMISgauges

[bassyac]

OK I cleaned all the connections and dielectric greased them. They all looked new, no corrosion. Here we go
Big S and long normal beep when key is on.
Hit menu twice scroll down to Bus. device
it says; no bus device on network
Go to NEMA network gives me port 5 LMF400 gauge-port4 LMF400
This happens on both gauges
Can I put the engine interface right to the back of either gauge????
OR should I connect one gauge to a tee, engine interface to an add on tee 2 terminations
also can terminations go bad??
Maybe start with all new tees and terminations/ add a few more hundred dollars thrown in the water-I would rather buy a new rod & reel
After this I am going to join the circus and be a trapeze artist

[Moonlighter]

No, you cant connect interface cable direct to SMIS. It won't work.

This whole system only works as a network and only if the network has its own power supply to a T. Only. No other way!

It must be set up as per the diagram in my paper on the networks sticky thread, with T's connected together, terminating resister at each end and devices connecetd to the oeg parts of the T's.

Its hard to diagnose this remotely.

A few thoughts....

Even though the T's look fine, they may not be. I nearly ripped my hair out setting up a network on a friends new boat one time, it just wouldnt recognise the interface at all, tried evrything. All components new out of the box. Eventually swapped out the T that the network was connected to and it all suddenly worked. Brand new T was faulty internally. Seen it a few times. They can just go bad.....



John, i cant recall if you have any other displays attached to your network other than the SMIS?? Such as a GPS/sounder combo? If so, go into the network menu and with the engine key turned to on, check the device list to see whats there. Should see both of the SMIS displays the interface and the display being used all listed. Let me know what you see.

The fact that a fuse was blowing obviously tells us some wiring somewhere was shorting. The fact that it happened a few times may mean something else was damaged in the process. Hard to say what, although. could be a terminating resistor, or a T piece. Could have also damaged/trashed the interface cable itself.

I have heard of a couple of cases where the interface cable itself had been damaged or rubbed through where it goes through a bulkhead etc, or been pinched somewhere, so i would suggest you inspect it carefully from one end to the other to look for any evidence of damage.

Try changing the T piece the interface is connected to. Swap things around between T pieces, test again each time and see if it makes any difference.

It doesn't matter which T piece anything is connected to. Makes no difference at all. so swap around things between T's as much as you like!!

Also, if any work has been done on the motor prior to all this happening, check that the interface cable connections at the engine are all ok, plugged in firmly, no evidence of corrosion on the pins etc. some dilectric grease there wont hurt either. The red wire in the interface/adapter that comes from the SDS plug on the engine powers the interface cable so pay careful attention to it.

If you decide to buy parts to change things, the cheapest way is to buy a "network starter kit" from Lowrance or Simrad. Costs about $70 here so probably cheaper there in the US. Includes a couple of T's, terminating resistors, power node and some cables.

Just go about it methodically. The old trouble shooting rule: change one thing at a time, test again.

[bassyac]

Thank you, I bought the starter sets, going to try doing today I hope 100 degrees f and 98%humidity. I love the world of computers.
I'll do 1 at a time see what happens, the engine still runs great with well over 200 hours. I bought the lowrance brand that is on there when new. Added Garmin brand a year ago the mounting holes for the screws are a little off. I check the ohms on the terminations (119.6) well within spec I think.
Fingers crossed!!
John

[bassyac]

I am at a loss
Replaced all Tees with new ones, Made sure they had continuity on all pins
placed all 6 tees together continuity checked good from front to end including all the drops. added terminations to end 119.5 OHMS, ok Ran a new cable on the deck (temp)from stern to helm(came in the kit,continuity checked).
Attached the backbone to a piece of plastic board, so no movement
attached all the electronics and gauges, turned the batteries on, switch on,
started the engine everything worked, started blinking after 4 minutes. it seems the only thing working is fuel, I added 20 gallons it showed correct amount plus 20,but blinked. I did notice when everything went on the data was correct engine hours have showed up. once blinking starts it shows no BUS devices installed.
Done... Went fishing engine runs great and beer was cold. Grant I have no hair, a nice cap though
John
Just put up on THT, someone has similar issue we'll see

[Moonlighter]

Rats!

Im out of ideas too John!

It seems very unlikely that 2 x SMIs gauges have gone out.

Which leaves just the interface cable itself. Hate to say it but maybe those voltage issues either related to or caused a fried interface cable??

Best to get the dealer to have a look at it now, methinks!

[bassyac]

dealer talked to Suzuki rep, he said, has to be the display/gauge
Going down today to remove The GPS and Lowrance puck from the backbone along with the TEEs and put the terminations back where the TEES were removed.I'll check line voltage again with engine not running and with engine running. 12.6 &14.6 respectfully, before beer.

[2014DF25ARS]

I'll respond while Moonlighter is sleeping...

You say you're going to measure the line voltage. What/where are you going to measure? What you need to measure is the power/ground pins on one of the Tees, or you could measure the power/ground connection where your NMEA power cable is connected to some power supply on your boat.

I think I disagree with the rep about the gauges being bad. If they offer you replacements at no cost, then what the heck - I'd take them. But I wouldn't spend money for them yet without a guarantee that you can get your money back when they don't solve the problem.

You said BOTH gauges report that you have no Bus devices, correct? As Moonlighter said, it seems extremely unlikely that both gauges would fail at the same time. You could argue that perhaps some voltage/power problem zapped both gauges in the same way, except that:

As I understand, your gauges (I'm going to start calling them displays rather than gauges for reasons Moonlighter has explained) both are booting and showing you menus, correct? You say you're able to scroll through the menus on both gauges, but both show you there are no bus devices installed, correct? The fact that you see menus at all on the displays indicates that they are booting successfully and behaving well. That is 90% of what they do! If they had been zapped by a power issue, you probably would not get that far.

I need to check my 4" SMIS display (which is working normally) to see what "Bus devices" are reported. I'm not sure whether the display itself appears as a bus device. My guess is that only the data sources show as bus devices. If that is true I would expect mine to show 2 devices:

(1) My Suzuki DF25A motor, which is reported to the network via the Engine Interface Cable (EIC)
(2) My paddlewheel speed sensor

I don't have a GPS or any other sensors on my little boat.

For the SMIS display to "see" the bus devices, I expect it sends out a text command on the NMEA network asking each device to respond and report itself, or it just looks at the data packets that each device is sending out, and gets some device ID from the packets. In either case, this requires that the Bus Devices are obeying some rules about talking together on the bus. It's kind of like a radio channel or an old telephone "party line"; only one person is allowed to talk at any given time, and everyone else is required to sit and listen while that person is talking. If any one of the devices is defective, it may stop obeying the rules, and potentially can kill the communications from ALL the devices on the data bus. This would cause the conditions you are seeing.

I think it's not clear to any of us what devices you have on your NMEA network. Is the engine the only thing you expect to see on the bus, or do you also have an NMEA GPS antenna, or a speed sensor, or a fuel sensor, etc. plugged into your NMEA network via a Tee? If you have more than one device plugged in to your bus, then I suspect that ONE of them is behaving badly. I suggest you unplug each device (including the EIC) - one at a time - and then check your SMIS display again after each one, to see if the other bus devices show up. If you disconnect a device and the remaining network starts working normally, then you know you have a problem with the removed device.

To remove a device from the network, just unplug its Tee from the network and connect the two adjacent Tees to each other. Now that you have the Starter Kit, you should have enough spare parts to do this easily.

[bassyac]

I do not not think Grant ever sleeps
I have 2 displays, that have worked for over 250 engine hours
Hooked up in the order they are in
2 connections to fuel tank sensor/flow and tank cap.
1 Garmin 1040xs plotter/sounder
1 Lowrance puck on top of helm
1 power cable hook to main power in helm
1 Engine interface line
2 LMF400 displays/gauges
Went on the boat last evening turn switch on;here is the events
Long beep(normal) Big "S" on both diplays
left display engine temp 95, fuel 93gallons engine hours 260
right display analog Tachometer, digital rpms
4 minutes later both displays start blinking
Here is what I did
shut off key
turn batteries off
removed TEE for GPS
turned all back on - still blinking with fuel data showing
walked to helm fuel blinking 93 gallons walked to stern fuel blinking 98 gallons
shut all off
Removed the TEE to Lowrance Puck
turned all back on
all still blinking dashes and blinking fuel numbers only
shut all off went home threw grandson in the pool
I am thinking maybe there is a way to reboot the engine's computer
not blowing fuses has me concerned as to why it blew in the first place.
Did change out the 1amp fuse to a 7.5 amp(what is to be in there)

[2014DF25ARS]

So you tried disconnecting 2 of the 5 bus devices you have connected to your network. After disconnecting each one, did you try to display bus devices?

I like the line about throwing the grandson into the pool. Much more enjoyable than crawling around under the helm...

Perhaps it would make more more sense to start by disconnecting all 5 devices (all but the power and the 2 SMIS displays). Then connect each Tee/device one at a time and look at the behavior. This way it feels as though you're building on success, rather than chasing failure. I strongly suggest that you "Display Bus Devices" after connecting each new device. I expect that each of those 5 devices should show as a Bus Device.

Keep in mind that the Engine Interface Cable is just another Bus Device. Treat it like any of the others.

[bassyac]

Thanks for the input
I did that except I never disconnected the the fuel backbone for fuel, that always blinked the correct data,so I assumed that worked. A person on THT site has a similar boat with the same fuel back bone in the stern mentioned his stern fuel back bone was bad. disconnected the fuel remaining TEE still blinked put that one back and removed the fuel flow plug and thank the maker it stopped blinking. all the data, RPM engine voltage, hours, fuel remaining ETC. started working, started and ran the engine for 45minutes not blinking. I am going out tomorrow for the day I do hope it stays working. I hope the fuel flow sensor is what caused all of this including the blown fuse. I do not really use fuel flow. I go out 75 miles and use 24 gallons of fuel 3 miles per gallon,not going to go out 100 miles and say I have 33 gallons-We'll make it.
Me and all the green flies were doing a happy dance.
Thank you all for the help
John

[2014DF25ARS]

Great to hear that you found the problem!

As an FYI to any future readers of this thread, I went to my boat last night - where my 4" SMIS display is working normally - to check the "Bus Devices" display. As said earlier, I have two data sources on my network:

(1) My DF25A motor, via the Engine Interface Cable (EIC)
(2) A paddlewheel speed sensor

I powered up my network, without turning on the engine. The SMIS Display booted as expected (Big S followed by page display.) When I "Display Bus Devices", I see only the Paddlewheel Speed Sensor. Next I turned the engine ignition key to the ON position, getting the expected warning beep. I checked "Display Bus Devices" again, and I saw the Paddlewheel Speed Sensor and the Engine listed as Bus Devices.

Conclusion: the SMIS display itself does not appear as a Bus Device. Only the data generating devices appear, e.g. GPS, speed sensors, fuel sensors, engines, etc.

[bassyac]

Good to know
IT was working,so I did not check for bus devices. I will later or tomorrow, just to see what mine state. there are a few sensors that I never look at, but now I will,Air temperature,fuel pressure, speed ETC. All look at is Engine temperature, RPM's and Fuel Remaining. Any other stuff I get off the GPS
Thank you
John

[2014DF25ARS]

Be aware there may be some parameters for which there is a display option in the SMIS menus, but which are not produced by your motor. I'm have a small DF25 motor, and many of those temp, pressure, etc. parameters are not output by my motor, so they are blank on the SMIS display, or display stupid values.

[bassyac]

Be aware there may be some parameters for which there is a display option in the SMIS menus, but which are not produced by your motor. I'm have a small DF25 motor, and many of those temp, pressure, etc. parameters are not output by my motor, so they are blank on the SMIS display, or display stupid values.

Yes I know of some
I'm only learning as things happen. Seen a probe for air temp, speed is picked up with a little hole in front of engine.I have no need for any of them
Going out this weekend hope all is well, I'll post on Monday
If there is alot of sweat coming off the Beer bottle, either I'm not drinking fast enough or it's hot and humid
thanks again
John

[Moonlighter]

Ok, well done John!

Just to check - the fuel sensor you have discovered to be the problem was the fuel tank level sensor, correct? The one that connects to the fuel tank sender unit? This is usually referred to as an EP65r fluid level sensor and thats how it would probably show up on the device list.

If that is the case, leave it off, they often cause network problems! We can set your interface up to show fuel used and fuel remaining based on data from the engines ecu without any dramas and more accurate than the fluid level sensor too.

I will bet that somewhere in the wiring for the sensor there is an electrical breakage or short.

Anyway, go catch some fish! Drink some more beer! Post some pics as evidence!

Have a great weekend!