300 APX - Half the Digital Gauges Not working

[Alman87]

I have a brand new boat with Suzuki 300 APX (2016) with digital gauges (two round green gauges)

GAUGES WORKING...
The Revs works
The Trim Tabs works

GAUGES NOT WORKING...
The Speedometer DOES NOT WORK
The Oil Pressure DOES NOT WORK
The Fuel level DOES NOT WORK

What is causing this and how can I get this fixed?

[Bamahemi]

You need to add the speed sensor for ground speed or the gps one that will give you it from sat and it will also give your fuel calc usage more accurate readings.
Last check I did and they don't offer an oil pressure sensor.
You will need to have the fuel level sensor on the tank hooked up to the gauge set up.
There's a bunch of settings but not all are used on the zuke. You can get the water pressure sensor.

Hope this helps.

[Alman87]

Kind of. But shouldn't the speed be a standard feature in the engine gauges?
Do I really need to add an accessory to get speed in the top of the line Suzuki engine?

Also on the fuel gauge, I still need help to see the fuel level on my gauges
Thanks

[Bamahemi]

Yep u will need the pitot sensor or gps sensor, they want to eat off you! As far as your fuel gauge I have no idea how u set it up by the person who rigged it. Mine is connected to a analog fuel gauge and the dig zuke. Also, make sure the white and black ecm wires are on a separate battery than what starts the motor or you'll get issues due to voltage drop when you start the motor, the gauge will lose its settings.

[Alman87]

Thanks.
So it is possible to add an analog fuel gauge and the digital suzuki gauges.
May I kindly request that you share with me the setup drawings (connection) if possible?

[Moonlighter]

Can you kindly post either a photo of your gauges, or find a link to them on a website and put a link here, or at least give us the model or part number please.

You may not be aware but Suzuki supplies different gauges in different countries and even where common gauges are supplied, there are several different varieties with digital displays. So telling us your location helps too.

As far as wiring diagrams go, these will vary markedly depending on the type of gauge you have.

Round green digital gauges is a bit too vague for us to give you clear guidance. They might be SMIS gauges, or something else. Colour displays? Or black and white?

Youve said this is a brand new boat and motor, i expect that the very first thing you will have done is to talk to your dealer to get them involved in solving the problems. At least some of those problems may have nothing to do with the Suzukis, they could well be the boat setup. Has the dealer been of any assistance so far?

[Alman87]

I have attached an image of the gauges I have. I am also attaching a page from the Suzuki website with the image of the gauge just incase my image doesn't load up http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...jpg?1463520866

The boat was bought in the USA brand new 2016 Bluewave 2400 with Suzuki 300 APX and shipped overseas (Dubai - Muscat area). The dealer here is not familiar with the digital gauges.

Thank you all for trying to help ....

[ChrigelKarrer]

The Speedometer DOES NOT WORK
The Oil Pressure DOES NOT WORK
The Fuel level DOES NOT WORK

Your gauges are SUZUKI SMIS gauges made by Lowrance

The Speedo need to be connected either to the pitot tube on the lower unit or a NMEA2000 GPS position trough the NMEA2000 bus
Suzuki does not supply oil pressure, at least the DF300AP not (Water pressure is possible, but you need a specal water pressure sensor for the DF300AP)
Fuel evel work only connecting a NMEA2000 fuel/liquid level interface to transform the analog fuel sender signal to NMEA2000 digital signal.

The Lowrance EP-15 Fuel/Liquid level interface is not working very well,
i suggest you to use a analog fuel level gauge to monitor your fuel tank level.

The dealer here is not familiar with the digital gauges.

If suggest you to change your dealer or to self-study the whole Suzuki Digial system to be able to install and maintain it, it is not a difficult system, but not very ergonomic and easy to mess it up.

Chris

[Alman87]

Could I be in need of the EP-15 Fluid level Electronic Sensor ... see link below?

http://www.lowrance.com/Root/Lowranc...371_100405.pdf

[Moonlighter]

Ok, let's "rewind" back to the start now that we know what gauges you have.

In your first post you described what was working and what was not.

So please clarify that the things not working are all not working on the SMIS displays - in other words, the displays are NOT showing:

Speed
Oil pressure
Fuel level

Is that correct?

If so.....

You have to understand that these SMIS displays are nothing like the old analogue gauges.

Did you notice that I call them "displays"? Thats because they are electronic data displays that can display data from many different sources. And they can also do calculations to turn some of that data into more useful information.

To work at all, these displays MUST be connected to a network, called in this case a NMEA2000 network. Then, anything else that you want to get data from also has to get connected to the network. Now the great thing about the network is that once the data is being shared to it, the data can be displayed on any displays attached to the network.

It also follows that only the data sent to the network will be able to be displayed on any suitable display attached to the network (ie your SMIS displays, or a screen such as a Simrad NSS GPS/sounder combo.)

Then, the display has to be configured and set up so that it knows what data you want it to display, and where to get that data from. We call that configuring the displays. The SMIS displays are set up with some standard "gauges" and some default settings that are a starting point.

Now that we understand all of that, we get back to your "missing data" from your SMIS displays.

1. Oil Pressure
Firstly, the DF300AP doesnt send oil pressure data to the network. So even though the SMIS displays have a gauge set up to show it, there will be no oil pressure data for them to show. So park that item, as it is dead in the water!

2. Speed:
Yes, the DF300 does send water speed data to the network - it is pitot speed. In the SMIS display menu, you will need to select the speed dial and then in the menu, find data sources, and select water speed.

However, as you would know from analogue speedometers, the pitot speed readings are notoriously unreliable. A bit of weed or grit clogs the tiny hole in the lesding edge of the outboard leg and it doesnt work at all.

So the SMIS display can, and often is, configured to use SOG - Speed over ground - as its source for "speed". This requires input from a GPS, either a separate GPS antenna, or a MFD such as a chartplotter or combo unit, and these have ti be connected to the network. For example, on my boat, I have aLowrance HDS5 combo unit connected to my network, and this supplies GPS gatabtonthe network and then the SMIS displays use that data to calculate speed over ground.

And here is the really neat bit - the SMIS then uses that same info to calculate fuel economy in mpg or km/litre and to instantly update that info.

So adding a GPS data source to your network is a really good, almost essential, thing to do.

3. Fuel level.
Fuel level can also be done 2 ways.

Option 1 is the best and most accurate.
This option is where the SMIS takes the fuel flow data it gets from the engine (thru the intface cable) and calculates how much fuel has been used. It then subtracts that from the amount of fuel in the tanks, and therefore gives you a live readout showing fuel used, how much is left, and it can also display this on a virtual gauge as either a bar graph or a dial.

To do this, you have to do some very simple setting up when upu first start the system. You have to tell the network what it is dealing with on your boat. Sk in your case, you go into the "boat setup" menu and tell it that your boat has 1 engine and 1 fuel tank (if that's what youve got). Then you set the fuel tank capacity by inputting the correct number.

So, now the network and the SMIS knows how much fuel is held in a full tank, and as fuel is burnt, it adjusts the fuel remaining/fuel used data accordingly. You can then set alarms that warn you when fuel reaches a pre-set level.

What you now have to remember is that every time you fill up or just add some fuel, you need to tell the system so it can adjust itself correctly. Its very easy. You turn the engine key on (the data comes from the engine) and then go into the SMIS menu, select fuel, and then select refuel. It will give you 2 options: to reset the tank to full, or to do anpartial fill when you add some fuel but dont fill the tank. If you fill the tank, it automatically resets fuel remaining to the tank capacity you input to the settings. If you select a oartial fill, it will ask you to input a figure of exactly how much fuel you added.

Option 2 is to use the electric fuel gauge in the tank, and get a special sensor that converts the ekctrical signils to digital signals that the network can read.

This sensor is called a fluid level sensor, and they are made by Lowrance/Simrad. Sometimes called a EP65r fluid level sensor.

Because they work off a tank float of some kind, then, the same as a old style fuel gauge, they will vary greatly as the fuel sloshes around in the tank. But they can be a useful backup to Option 1.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you need more info.

[Alman87]

Ok, let's "rewind" back to the start now that we know what gauges you have......

2. Speed:
..... So adding a GPS data source to your network is a really good, almost essential, thing to do.

When I do select speed source, nothing happens, it just goes back to the water source for some reason. I do have the Furuno NevNet TZtouch2 and it shows the speed. I would appreciate to know how to get the Suzuki gauges to read from the Furuno. Kindly assist.

Ok, ......

3. Fuel level.
Fuel level can ....... Option 1 is the best and most accurate.
This option is where the SMIS takes the fuel flow data it gets from the engine (thru the intface cable) and calculates how much fuel has been used. It then subtracts that from the amount of fuel in the tanks, and therefore gives you a live readout showing fuel used, how much is left, and it can also display this on a virtual gauge as either a bar graph or a dial.

To do this, you have to do some very simple setting up when upu first start the system. You have to tell the network what it is dealing with on your boat. Sk in your case, you go into the "boat setup" menu and tell it that your boat has 1 engine and 1 fuel tank (if that's what youve got). Then you set the fuel tank capacity by inputting the correct number.

So, now the network and the SMIS knows how much fuel is held in a full tank, and as fuel is burnt, it adjusts the fuel remaining/fuel used data accordingly. .....

I have tried this option, and I put in 80 gal which is what it takes, but it still reads empty. But it does read for me the consumption while driving the boat and it does give me total fuel used. Unfortunately the fuel level part shows empty constantly. I would really appreciate input on this.

...... Hope this helps. Let us know if you need more info.

Yes it helps lots. I also help my responses (feedback above) will help you all guide me to the final solution of the problem now that with everyones help we seem to be closing in to the solution. Kindly advise me on the next steps.

[Moonlighter]

When I do select speed source, nothing happens, it just goes back to the water source for some reason. I do have the Furuno NevNet TZtouch2 and it shows the speed. I would appreciate to know how to get the Suzuki gauges to read from the Furuno. Kindly assist.

The furuno must first be connected to the network. It is easy: get a network T piece and a NMEA2000 drop cable. Insert the T piece into the existing network, connect the cable between Furuno and T piece. Turn the Furuno on. Tirn the Suzuki key to on. On the SMIS display, go into data sources and for speed, select SOG. Done. Your SmIS should now have SOG available as a data source, and in the network devices list, the Furuno should be listed. But remember, for the network to "see" the Furuno, it must ne turned on.


I have tried this option, and I put in 80 gal which is what it takes, but it still reads empty. But it does read for me the consumption while driving the boat and it does give me total fuel used. Unfortunately the fuel level part shows empty constantly. I would really appreciate input on this.

So the boat setup has been done, where the 1 engine/1 tank setup has been done, and the tank total capacity has also been set?? Please confirm that this has been done.

If it has, then Most likely the fuel level (bar chart or gauge) is set to show fuel level from a level sensor such as the EP65 sensor that I mentioned. So forget it, or again, reset the data source to be "global" or the "Suzuki" for that specific bar chart.

On ypur SmIS there is usually a pre-set fuel data page. You can customise that page to show fuel remaining as one of the data items. It should then show gallons remaining. See how that works.

Yes it helps lots. I also help my responses (feedback above) will help you all guide me to the final solution of the problem now that with everyones help we seem to be closing in to the solution. Kindly advise me on the next steps.

Have posted my replies above in your text.

See how that goes.

If we continue to have problems, it is possible that the new 2016 motor is having some compatibility issues with the SMIS displays. Another member here recently found that there was a problem in that regard, and is waiting for a further update of the SMIS software from Suzuki/Lowrance.

[ChrigelKarrer]

Your Furuno NevNet TZtouch2 has one NMEA2000 port. You need a NMEA2000 cable and a Tee to connect it to the NMEA network where the SMIS gauges are connected.
This will enable displaying speed, MPG and GPH on the SMIS gauge.

Yes you need the Lowrance EP65r (not the EP15 as i wrongly stated before) fluid level sensor to display the fuel level in your fuel tank(s).
You can use the calculated fuel level, as Moonlighter described above, but you have to be very serious regarding adding the fuel to the SMIS gauge when you fuel up. If you forget to do that the whole system will not work, also, if fuel get stolen, you/son/neighbour take some for the car/lawn mower/ or there is evaporation and you forget to tell this the SMIS gauge you will have less fuel in the tank than shown on the SMIS gauge.
I don't consider this as a very safe system and i never would eliminate a floating fuel level sensor, just for safety reasons.

There are two persons in this forum having problems with 2016 Engines and SMIS gauges, one of them is me.
It seems that new 2016 model year Suzuki engines/engine interfaces have problems with the SMIS gauges as probably Suzuki is pointing towards the C10 gauges. The main problem with 2016 DF300AP is that the SMIS gauge is showing continously ghost engine errors on the SMIS gauge and this is annoying and can lead to ignore real errors/problems.
I have also unstable/erraneous fuel level sensor readings, but i am not sure if this depend on the gauge, cable, fuel level Interface or the fuel level sender.
It is most likely the fuel level sender sticking/bad calibrated as i had 2 different readings on analog gauges before, but now the SMIS gauge sometimes show half tank when full.
Just for information, the fuel sender is a Moeller Reed Switch Sending Unit.

In your case you may install a normal analog fuel level gauge and use the SMIS gauge to display the calculated fuel in your tank.

Please check the SMIS Software Version and the Engine Interface Software Version to see if you have the same one as we have.
You can get the SMIS software version on the SMIS gauge while for the Engine Interface you need to connect either a Lowrance, Simrad or Garmin MFD to show the engine Interface Version. I don't know if your Furuno can read and show this data, but first you need to connect the Furuno to the NMEA2000 bus as decribed above.

Chris

[Alman87]

Thanks to all for the input.
It looks like the gauges I got were wrong. I did want the newer gauges but I was told by the Boat Rep that sold me the boat that the new square gauges had trouble with them. It turns out that they were my safe bet and the ones they installed are the trouble gauges. I know he was trying to advise me from his experience, but now I'm stuck with the problem.

[ChrigelKarrer]

I choosed the old SMIS gauges because (some of) the new C10 gauges have problems with fogging inside the gauge.
As one of my boats is in Costa Risca i would not liked to have problems with shipping fogged gauges back and forth so i went with the SMIS gauges.

Unfortunately it seems that Suzuki/Lowrance updated some stuff on the DF300AP and now there is a software problem with the Engine Interface causing "ghost error/alarms" problems.

As far i understood you don't have the ghost error/alarm problems, your problem is different and seems easy to solve using the right software on the SMIS gauges and the engine interface.

My dealership is working with Suzuki to solve this very specific problem and i am looking foreward to get a software update soon.

You are free to buy a C10 gauge and install it, but be advised that the gauge may fog up and need to be replaced several times.
Your dealer should be able to exchange our SMIS with a C10 gauge or solve your problems.

If you follow Moonlighters and my help/hints you will resolve your problems and have working gauges.

Chris