Suzuki Engine Interface updated, EP65R broken

[jgholmes]

Hi,
I have a late 2013 DF300AP with Suzuki Engine interface (originally SW V2.5), EP65R Fluid Level, 2xGMI20, HDS Gen2 12T and 9T.

I just tried to upgrade the Engine interface to V3.5 as I am wanting to install the Suzuki multi function display, and was told this version is required.
In doing the upgrade (which based on the reported version seems to have worked), the EP65R Fluid Level sensor has stopped working.
I tried to run the fluid level v210 update, but it did not progress - I suspect this is what did it.
EP65R no longer appears in the device list, but a device with a random code name appears instead.
Does anyone have a copy of the EP65R ".luf" file I can try to restore?

Also, I can't specify the engine type or year in the Engine Interface config (on the HDS). I try to specify 2013 as the year, but it wont allow the Engine type to be entered, then defaults back to pre 2007 after exiting the config screen. Any suggestions?
Thanks

[Moonlighter]

Regarding specifying the engine year/hp, the interface software auto-detects the engine and you cant change it, as you've discovered. Usually it defaults to the base year for that series and the DF300AP would be around the year it was first introduced, i think about 2011/12?

So it does seem very weird that it has reverted to a 2007.

I suspect that the interface upgrade did not install correctly. Go into the HDS network menu, device list, select the Suzuki and check the software version shown there. It should say V 3.5.0. Re-do the 3.5.0 install if it doesnt. It should then show up in the config screen correctly, at least as a 2012 year engine and hp should show as 250 or 300.

Even if it is right, it might be worth re-loading 3.5.0 anyway, just to be sure.

This might even solve the Ep65r issue.

Let us know how you go. I will have a dig in my files tonight and see if I can find a EP65 software version for you, kind of doubt I have one but will check anyway. It is possible that the attempt to update its software has fried it, so be prepared to buy a new fluid level sensor to replace it with.

[jgholmes]

Thanks for your help so far Moonlighter.
I have confirmed that the engine interface software version is 3.5 (from the HDS Menu), but as you suggest I will try reloading it to see what happens.

With regard the EP65R problem, I'm fairly sure that the mistake I made was to run the EP15 2.1.0.luf upgrade file (included with the software files recommended for 2013+ model years). It looks like the loader has identified the EP65R as a fluid level device and tried to load the older EP15 software (and failed). I think it should be possible to recover it once I can track down the correct software file. I note from another forum that the Lowrance EP-XX .luf files are available through ETEC dealer tech support login. It would be appreciated if it can be found as I have been unsuccessful so far in locating it.

With regards the Engine Interface issue (defaulting to 2007 and older, and not being able to specify the model)... I note you say this autodetects, but are you refering to the model year, model type or both? From a brief conversation with Lowrance support, they say both should be configurable via the interface on the head unit (HDS). Obviously it isn't, but I'm trying to narrow the problem to a glitch with the HDS config screen (not the first one I've seen), problem with the Engine interface software or compatibility, or a setting/ firmware issue with the Suzuki ECM/BCM CAN interface.
Is there any chance that the problem is I'm trying to use the HDS12T for this change and it might work via an SMIS gauge (which I don't currently have)?
I assume the Engine year / model type setting is basically setting the format and data set that is sent (based on model specific capabilities). Is there any other software / firmware at the BCM or ECU level which changes what the Engine Interface sees, or is this fixed by the BCM/ECU revision based on model year? My model is DF300AP with S/N starting with: 30002P-31... Is there any way to tell if it is actually a 2013 model year compatible with the 3.5.0 Engine interface? Is there any other (dealer level) firmware or config that defines the model year and data format output that may be set incorrectly?
Any help much appreciated.

[Moonlighter]

The interface software auto-detects both the engine horsepower and year. I can assure you that the Lowrance support person who you spoke to is WRONG.

Very few of them know much about the Suzuki interface setup. V2.30 was the last version that was manually configurable, but Lowrance have never updated the instructions on their website.

So Its very strange that yours is defaulting back to 2007 since its showing V3.5.0. What horsepower is it defaulting back to?

It will not be a problem with the HDS or its config screen or anything else. It will be the interface software. Try reloading it. If it still defaults to wrong, maybe just test the engine fuel flow and other data and see if it looks right. If it all looks OK leave it as is.

[jgholmes]

Thanks again Moonlighter, you were right of course.
It turns out that for whatever reason, my DF300AP does not work with the engine interface V3.5.0 software.
When I load the previous Engine Interface Module version 2.9.0 it works and auto detects as a DF300, Model Year 2014. This seems right as it was purchased late 2013 (2013 on the serial number plate), installed 2014. It also picks up pitot speed as a parameter which has never been available in the interface previously.
It is strange that the newer software doesn't work given it is supposed to support 2013 and up, not sure the issue there...

As for the EP-65R (not working after incorrect EP15 software loaded), Lowrance support say there is no software available for the EP-65 and the device is now unrecoverable. I'm not convinced as I can still load various other .luf software files into it, but I don't have the specific software for EP-65R.

[Moonlighter]

Ok, that explains it! Your motor must be just on the cusp between V2.9.0 and 3.5.0. Good that it is working now.

Re the EP65r software, it IS available to download from the Lowrance website. Go to
Suzuki - LOWRANCE | Marine Electronics

and see the software update folder for 2008 to 2012 motors. You will see they list interface V 2.9.0 there which is what your engine uses, and you'll also see the software listed for the fluid level sensor as V 2.1.0. That's for the EP65. If you download the whole update and then dig in the menu tree, you will find the fluid level .luf update file there. It's name reflects the old EP15 but it is nevertheless the latest sw for the fluid level sensor, regardless of its name.

I should be charging Lowrance/Navico support for providing the service that they should be providing!!

Its funny, here in Australia back in about 2010, I wrote an article on the NMEA2000 engine networks and Suzuki in particular for one of our national boating and fishing magazines that I was a part-time contributor for, using Lowrance displays. This was back when I had just started to learn about this stuff by installing it on my own boat.

About a year later I ran into some issues and called Lowrance support here in Australia.

After Talking to them and explaining the issues, they said, "no worries, we will email you a really good article that explains it all".

At this point I smelt a rat, and asked who the author of that article was...... And werent they surprised to find themselves talking to the author!

Good luck, youve nearly got it sorted now!

[jgholmes]

After some more experimentation I have established the following:

The Fluid level software 2.1.0 available at Suzuki - LOWRANCE | Marine Electronics is the correct software for the EP-65R (as you advised). I had first thought that loading this was what destroyed the device (it wasn't).

My EP-65R was on the network with the Suzuki Engine Interface when I was performing the software update. Somehow it was reset and loaded with the Engine interface software at the same time. The EP-65 now behaves and is viewable / configurable on the network as an Engine Interface - I can perform upgrades and downgrades to it. Obviously it is not usable due to the wrong physical connections on the other end. It will not take the Fluid level software as it now identifies as an engine interface. Whilst I have effectively destroyed the device, it is interesting that the chipset is identical (or near enough) to take the different software.

I have sourced another EP-65R which had an older firmware and it successfully updated using the Fluid Level 2.1.0 software.

Lesson learned: Make sure there is only one Lowrance EP-XX on the NMEA network when performing updates - this includes the Suzuki Engine Interface which is a Lowrance EP-XX device. You can get unlucky an install the wrong software to another device (and render it useless) if this rule is not followed.

Next step is to source a Suzuki C10 / Simrad IS35 display so I can get the Engine error codes that I'm missing currently using only Garmin GMI-20s with the Zuk. I know the LMF-400 SMIS will work but those gauges are nasty by current standards IMHO.

Do you know if anyone has established if the C10 software can be loaded into the standard Simrad IS35 to convert it to the Suzuki specific device?
Also which C10 software version is recommended for use with v2.9.0 Engine interface (it is not clear from the info on the Lowrance/Suzuki site)?

RE the Lowrance support, yes it certainly seems they would benefit from a hotline to your wealth of knowledge.

Thanks again for your help Moonlighter!

[Moonlighter]

Hmmm OK, thats a new lesson for us all re the EP thinking it is now an interface cable!

You could try one thing: unplug the interface cable from the network and then try the EP software install. But First, go into the network menu, unconfigure the EP, then try the sw upload. Probably wont work but ......

Good question about flashing the Simrad gauge to make it a C10. I dont know the answer. There is one person i know who is a Simrad expert, i will ask him, if anyone knows, he will. Might take a few days but I will try to find an answer.

I believe that the correct C10 sw for the earlier engines is V 1.1-50.2.116. Can be downloaded from that link on the Lowrance website, Suzuki page.

[jgholmes]

Hi Moonlighter,

Did you manage to find out if the standard SIMRAD IS35 can be flashed to make it a C10?

[Moonlighter]

No, have asked my contacts but no-one has attempted it yet.

If I was a betting man, i would say that it would be a good chance of working. They are both made by Simrad and we know that with the Lowrance LMF, we could flash it with the Suzuki SMIs software and it worked perfectly.

The downside risk though if it doesnt could be that you render the IS35 inoperable.....

Want to volunteer to be the first? 😁