New Question on old topic...DF140 engine head with Pictures

[Loosewire]

Referencing an earlier post from last week,
http://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/f...sion-what-next

I have another "What Would You Do?" question.

I had the hole in the engine holder welded by a local shop vs. buying a new one. Hopefully that will work if this motor goes back together.

I was also able to get the broken bolt out of the engine block (BIG THANKS for the tips you provided and my buddy who is a machinist at BOEING!!). That took some time but the threads were salvaged and all is good.

I decided to also remove the head while I had the powerhead off to put my mind at ease as that being the source of water getting in the oil and to see how things looked inside. No water or signs of water in the cylinders, but many of the cooling passages were blocked, so I worked on cleaning those out today.

There's a few high spots in the cooling passageways of the block (likely due to corrosion) which I hope to be able to lightly hone those down level with the block.

My big question is what are your thoughts on this engine head? Does this look like the typical corrosion you would see in a 12-year old salt to brackish water engine with 350 hours?

Should I just have it machined and reinstall, or is it questionable in this condition??

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Mvn...xg#Hanahan,_SC

[jHydroman]

Unable to view pictures.

Jim

[Loosewire]

OK, must be having some technical difficulties with Google Photos.

[catacom225]

I think i understand what your seeing, I replaced my old 140 head with a brand new one and after only a few years and maybe less than 100 hours I pulled it of again.
What i found shocked me, the amount of salt build up and blocked passages was unbelievable. The reason i was shocked is that I ran so much fresh water through that engine after every use, making sure the thermostat was opening every time. My advice to you If you plan to reinstall that head is take it to a machine shop and have them dip it,test for cracks,surface grind and reset your valves . This is not very expensive for security

[Loosewire]

I think i understand what your seeing, I replaced my old 140 head with a brand new one and after only a few years and maybe less than 100 hours I pulled it of again.
What i found shocked me, the amount of salt build up and blocked passages was unbelievable. The reason i was shocked is that I ran so much fresh water through that engine after every use, making sure the thermostat was opening every time. My advice to you If you plan to reinstall that head is take it to a machine shop and have them dip it,test for cracks,surface grind and reset your valves . This is not very expensive for security

Thanks Catacom...yeah, It’s pretty bad. I’m going to take it to a former Zuke dealer on Monday and see what he says. Personally, I think it’s beyond machining as some of the pits are probably .010-.015” deep. And the bottom cylinder water jacket pitting is getting close to the combustion chamber. I’m eyeing that 150 allot closer now...

[Loosewire]

Unable to view pictures.

Jim

Would you see if the link I put at the bottom of the original post shows the pictures? I linked them to my iCloud. Thanks!

[Harper]

Link works fine.

[jHydroman]

Unfortunately Suzuki doesn't offer over thickness head gaskets to accommodate shaving the head surface. Probably could by some time if you cote both sides of head gasket with Aviation Gasket Cement during the reassembly. At some point you just have to ask yourself how much more do you want to sink into that engine.

By they what method did you friend use to remove the broken bolt?

Jim

[Loosewire]

Unfortunately Suzuki doesn't offer over thickness head gaskets to accommodate shaving the head surface. Probably could by some time if you cote both sides of head gasket with Aviation Gasket Cement during the reassembly. At some point you just have to ask yourself how much more do you want to sink into that engine.

By they what method did you friend use to remove the broken bolt?

Jim

Thanks Jim! You're correct....this motor has been trouble free until now. Through this process, I've found too many things damaged by corrosion (not a result of poor maintenance or not flushing I might add). I spoke with a dealer's mechanic today who looked at the head, said it was too far gone and he pretty much confirmed I was chasing a ghost. I'm probably going to get a new DF150...maybe a 175, but not from them as they were well over another price I was quoted.

As for how we got the bolt out, I heated and sprayed PB Blaster on the bolt several times a day for three days. Then we drilled and tried the extractor with no success. Then we kept drilling until we had drilled so large, we were able to chisel the bolt threads away from the block with a sharp punch. We chased the threads with a tap and she was good. Only issue THERE was the corrosion between the engine holder and block around that bolt was so bad that there is no longer a good mating surface...more reason to retire this motor. Sad thing is the motor looks nearly brand new from the outside and under the cowling having lived in a garage when not in use and sprayed with YamaLube silicon spray several times a year. Guess I may try to part it out. Lower unit, oil pan, cowling, starter, PT/T, engine bracket, intake, wiring harness, VST are all in great condition.

[jHydroman]

I have a pair of 2007 DF 140's on my boat, 500 hrs.on each engine, they have performed flawlessly, other that scheduled maintenance the only part that has failed was the tilt switch on one engine got contaminated with saltwater and shorted the contacts. I have religiously flushed engines with Salt Away use in the ocean, I would estimate 75% of hrs are in salt water. I have only found small salt deposits in water passages in the block that is visible when I have changes the internal zinks, I have no corrosion or salt deposits in the lower units when changing water pumps. I did remove the steel plugs in the engine holder within the first year of operation replaced with aftermarket aluminum ones. My boat is stored inside my unheated shop when not in used. Mine also look like new perform as new. I checked the valve clearances last year and all were still with in specifications. I just wonder what the water passaged look like in mine., not sure that I want to know. I think I will remove one of the oil cooler just to get an idea of the condition. Do you think the condition of the oil cooler passage is a indicator of corrosion and salt deposits in other passages, I'm thinking the water would be much cooler at the oil cooler than in the water passages near the combustion chambers.

Jim

[briscoe]

I have an observation for Loosewire. I replaced my Engine Holder last year. I did not pull the heads off, didn't see the need. The first two years, I noticed a lot of salt build up around the internal zincs and changed them out, think they were the ones for fresh water. I have changed them out since then every 4 years use, with cleaning in between. I believe you indicated that you run your engine and flush with muffs. I have noticed that when I use the water hose fitting I get a much greater water pressure flushing the engine. So I have been flushing mostly with the hose connection and throw in the muffs occasionally. I believe Suzuki designed the water pressure valve to stay closed, which increases the water pressure and back flushes everything better than muffs. Just an observation........

To Hydroman, I too have a 07, DF140, with close to a 1000 hrs. I am just surprised you have not had the Engine Holder erosion/corrosion issue. As for plugged water jackets, I cleaned my oil filter water jacket and it had a little crap inside it. It was still doing it's job.
Fortunately my Progressive boat insurance add $3000 worth of tow insurance for $150 or so. Since I fish within 15 or 20 miles of any boat launch (around Galveston Bay), I'm gonna run it to failure. For now it's still running like a champ.

Briscoe

[Loosewire]

I have a pair of 2007 DF 140's on my boat, 500 hrs.on each engine, they have performed flawlessly, other that scheduled maintenance the only part that has failed was the tilt switch on one engine got contaminated with saltwater and shorted the contacts. I have religiously flushed engines with Salt Away use in the ocean, I would estimate 75% of hrs are in salt water. I have only found small salt deposits in water passages in the block that is visible when I have changes the internal zinks, I have no corrosion or salt deposits in the lower units when changing water pumps. I did remove the steel plugs in the engine holder within the first year of operation replaced with aftermarket aluminum ones. My boat is stored inside my unheated shop when not in used. Mine also look like new perform as new. I checked the valve clearances last year and all were still with in specifications. I just wonder what the water passaged look like in mine., not sure that I want to know. I think I will remove one of the oil cooler just to get an idea of the condition. Do you think the condition of the oil cooler passage is a indicator of corrosion and salt deposits in other passages, I'm thinking the water would be much cooler at the oil cooler than in the water passages near the combustion chambers.

Jim

Good question on the oil cooler being an indicator. You don't even have to pull it, just remove the two hoses and see if you can blow air through it. Mine is completely blocked. If you don't have water in your oil, I would not remove anything....I had about a quart or more in mine (based on the level on the dipstick).

[ad74710]

Folks,

These are the pictures

IMG_3975.JPEGIMG_3981.JPEGIMG_3984.JPEGIMG_3985.JPEG

[Ole Joe]

Loosewire,

I may be interested in the PTT should you part out the engine. PM me or email "kittynjoe@gmail.com".

Thanks,
Joe

[CentralTexas]

I ran into an overheat problem on a Yamaha 115 2 stroke. Buildup in water passages is a problem we all face with outboards.

I used a product called Rydlyme, marine version, that solved the overheat problem and did a very good job cleaning the water passages. It was controversial and still is due to Rydlyme being 10% Hydrochloric acid. Several others tried it as well and it worked for all of them.

Here is the link to the Yamaha Thread I did back in 2012.

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/f...lf-overheating