300 four stroke suzuki making oil

[AdamBuyskes2015]

Hi we recently brought 2 300 four stoke outboards.
We noticed after some running still running them in they were making oil. They continue to make oil and wonder why as the dealer thinks it's the props. Any advise will be greatly appreciated. They are also sounding a little rough after the most recent oil change done by the dealer. I will get oil type soon and software they are using as my boss thinks it is old software.

[Moonlighter]

You will need to give us a fair bit more info please.

New motors? How old?
How many hours?
Run in properly according to procedure as per manuals?
What oil is being used in them?
Do you give them a burst of max throttle for at least a few minutes each trip?
What is max rpm you can get at full throttle?
Is the fuel fresh?
Is the rough running only at idle or ????

[artdf175]

Correct me if i am wrong but I was under the impression if your oil is increasing it is a condition related to the float valve in the high pressure pump failing to close properly and fuel is dumped into the housing mixing with engine oil

[aquamort]

Correct me if i am wrong but I was under the impression if your oil is increasing it is a condition related to the float valve in the high pressure pump failing to close properly and fuel is dumped into the housing mixing with engine oil

That is one possibility art but there are others.....As mentioned overpropping a 4 stroke apparently can cause making oil....ive personally not seen it but have heard it does..

[AdamBuyskes2015]

They are new motors 65 hours old. They have been run in according to dealers instructions.
Dealer said to use yama lube 10 w 30 in the beginning. Then when the making oil problem started they said use suzuki 10 w 40 oil.
The throttle bust did not happen. The max rpm is 6000.
Fuel is fresh and the rough sound is at idle and louder at full rpm.
Moonlight any info would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the late
Response.

[Moonlighter]

Ok, if you can achieve 6000rpm at WOT, then props are unlikely to be the issue.

But thats not to say that the way you are running the boat may not be a contributing factor. For example, if the engine is constantly or excessively being run under load, as in, at a fast trolling speed where the boat is half on/half off the plane, especially in its first 50 hrs, this can contribute to an engine making oil. Again when the engine is new this is likely to contribute to badly seated rings.

You need to work closely with the dealer on this issue, get Suzuki regional rep involved if necessary.

If there is genuinely a belief that fuel is getting into the oil (which is usually what "making oil" is about) then good idea is to have a sample of oil taken and have it tested to confirm.

Usually it comes back to one of two things:

1. The engine has been babied too much when running in or the wrong oil used thus the rings have not seated in correctly. At 65hrs some hard running may still help bed the rings in. My dealer likes me to run the engine hard at 5000-6000rpm for at least a couple of minutes on most trips on the way home, especially if a lot of time has been spent trolling. This burns off any fuel in the oil.

2. The float level as previously described has been incorrectly set (this is the more likely scenario).

Thats about all i can offer, others may have further suggestions.

[aquamort]

The interesting part is that BOTH are making oil. Is this correct? If that is the case id say its more of how the boat is being driven or how it is set up. Be unlikely that float levels or low pressure pumps on both are causing this problem.

[AdamBuyskes2015]

Moolighter this is directly from my boss....asking me to explain these points.... I just copy pasted...


[12/15, 06:55] Cj: Explain that this occurred straight after a software downgrade from version 3 to version 2
[12/15, 06:56] Cj: As we were getting continuous error messages with version 3
[12/15, 06:56] Cj: The vessel wouldn't run or motors wouldn't run properly on version 3
[12/15, 06:58] Cj: The errors varied every time we ran the boat which were from 1 hour to 25 hours then the software change
[12/15, 07:01] Cj: After downgrade no errors but the engines have both stalled while running at around 3500 rpm
[12/15, 07:03] Cj: We've changed props and get 5850 at WOT
[12/15, 07:03] Cj: We've had the fuel tested and it was good no water and good quality
[12/15, 07:03] Cj: Suzukis technicians have been doing the work make sure you put that on there
[12/15, 07:04] Cj: We are just lost and need answers as it's over 2 months of errors now fuel in oil
[12/15, 07:05] Cj: Also put now both engines have changed sounds they have a distinctive growl when before the only thing to determine they were on were the water tell tales
[12/15, 07:06] Cj: Now you hear them
They ran it will stainless props today and he says the sound I'd rougher. After we started to make oil we changed to aluminium. The stainless ones were the original ones we have run them on.
Again any advise is greatly appreciated... thanks again

[aquamort]

Logic would tell me that its something to do with the software then. As i mentioned previously it would be unlikely a mechanical fault such as float levels etc would happen at the same time to both engines.

Do you have another Suzuki dealer nearby where maybe they can reset software update? Maybe the version your dealer has is dodgy? Unlikely but cant really think of anything else if its only happened after doing a software change.

Sounds like timing/fuel control etc has changed a fair bit which will give a different engine noise, and most likely running far too rich? I wouldnt run it too much in that condition or you will get bore wash and stuff the engine.

[Moonlighter]

I think you are now at the point where you need to have serious words with your Suzuki dealer and demand that they get the regional Suzuki technical rep involved immediately.

I just spoke to my local Suzuki tech guy (who is one of the highest master level certified Suzuki technicians in the country) and he says there is no such thing as an engine software upgrade (or "version 2 or 3") for the DF300AP, or any other Suzuki outboard engines for that matter. The Suzuki software he uses for servicing the engines simply allows technicians to access engine data and perform diagnostic tests, not to alter the ECU software or the engine mapping or anything else.

So what you report that your dealer is telling you there sounds very strange.....

There is however software for the NMEA2000 engine interface and that has seen several versions available, but that is all to do with the gauges/engine digital displays and has nothing at all to do with how the engine actually runs.

One thing to get the dealer to check - there have been a number of reported issues with the DF300A series oxygen sensors, and Suzuki has released a new design that overcomes this problem and is replacing any that cause engine alarms under warranty. The faulty sensors cause various error messages, and while the engines still run, they don't go into lean burn mode so they don't run as efficiently. So it may be worth asking about that.

My tech guy also says that the DF300AP's have been totally trouble-free from his experience, apart from the abovementioned minor issue. He has a number of pairs installed on local marine rescue boats that do 400-800 hours per year and they've been completely trouble free.

Finally, stainless propellers don't make engines run more roughly or noisily like you've described or is suggested by the dealer.

But you should really select props, regardless of whether they are stainless or alloy, that allow you to achieve 6000rpm at WOT so the engine is not under unnecessary load. 5850 is acceptable, though.

Out here, no-one would put alloy props on a DF300, the stainless ones are just so much better and if you're buying 300's, the extra cost of stainless would not bother you anyway.

One final thought - these engines need good solid 12V power. Weird things can happen when they don't get it. Given that both motors are playing up, I would suggest a thorough charge, check and clean-up of your boat's battery system, remove clean and reconnect all connections and check the battery cables and master switches to make sure that is not the core reason for your problems, before you go kicking Suzuki heads!!

If that all checks out, then get onto your dealer and insist they get the regional Suzuki rep on board to help solve the problems you're having. Something is wrong and your local guy sounds out of his depth.

Also, if you could tell us your location, someone here may be able to recommend a better Suzuki dealer in your area.

[redlowrey]

Any one who thinks that raw fuel can get passed the piston rings and start raising the level in the sump and the engine is running well has got......

[AdamBuyskes2015]

Thanks moolighter. We are located on a island called tortola in the British Virgin Islands, caribbean

[AdamBuyskes2015]

Tortola British Virgin Islands caribbean. Thanks again moonlighter

[AdamBuyskes2015]

Moon lighter one more concern from my boss.

Quote..
Tell them I'm concerned that by running with mixed oil the crank shaft isn't lubricated properly and bearings can be damaged after 4 oil changes in 25 hours or thereabouts

[aquamort]

***! I would have to assume your quote is referring to me saying that i wouldnt run the engine too much in the condition its in due to bore wash? As i dont see any other post making any similar reference. Where did i say if it would get past the rings it would cause the making oil??

1/ If there is already fuel in oil you wont want to run your engine!
2/ If your engine is running very rich you will get bore wash!