Bourbon Macallan?????

[bassyac]

I have posted on my 2014 df 300 before, I know go back to the dealer,I have.
I have had electrical issues that the dealer and the Suzuki rep have now repaired. I would just like some input from all the knowledge that is on this forum. I am able to run the engine for hours at 4000 to 4300 rpms, when I push the throttles to open 5500 rpm, the engine will run for a minute or so then drop down to idle, push the throttles back to 4000 rpms, ok, push to 5500 rpms, back down to idle again. I could do this all the time, same result. I do not know if this has been a problem from the beginning or it just started, for I never ran the engine wide open for more than a few seconds till now. Last week the dealer changed all the engine fuel filters, the high pressure fuel pump, the primmer bulb. The engine is on a brand new 2014 Proline so he thinks it is not a fuel tank or fuel line issue. I spoke to another Suzuki dealer and he said that there is no need for an external fuel water separating filter, but the Proline manufacturer has one installed, I am at a loss as what are my options on what dealer or what to tell them. He is going back on my boat this morning. I already owe one bottle this going to be one expensive engine.Gimme six

[Moonlighter]

Strange issue that you are having.

Firstly, whichever dealer said you dont need/shouldnt have a separate inline water separating fuel filter should be ashamed of themselves. If that is what they really think, i would steer well clear of them. A good quality inline filter such as a Racor style is critical.

The only issue would be to ensure that the filter is rated for fuel flow to suit your engine and that the element is clean.

I would be inclined to change the filter element on that filter too. Wouldn't be the first new boat that had crud in the new fuel tank as a result of the manufacturing or setup process.

But starving from fuel would usually result in the engine stalling out at high revs, not just dropping the engine back to lower revs.

It may be that a sensor is detecting an overheat condition, an over-rev, or something like that, and putting it into safe mode? At those high speeds, are you getting airborne on occasion and over-revving? Or, again at the high speeds, an engine set too high on the transom may not get sufficient water flow to the impeller and overheat?

But you would expect that such conditions would show up as codes in the diagnostic system and I assume that this has been checked by the dealer?

[bassyac]

Grant
If you ever come to NY you must look me up. You hit it, He found 1/4 inch pieces of aluminum in the fuel water separator. they never made past it,thankfully. He cut it open and found they would only clog it when there was a call for a lot of fuel. He ran the engine on a 6 gallon portable tank and it ran fine. He is going to clean the tank after Bass season. Said it should be fine.
Thanks
John

[Moonlighter]

Allright! Glad you got it sorted out. Have seen a few fuel issues where aluminium filings from brand new tanks got thru to filters and blocked them up. Occasionally, bits of plastic too. So thought that could be a possibility here.

Thankfully you had that in-line filter in place!

Does the tank have a anti-syphon valve on the take-off barb? If so might be worth double checking it to see if there is debris stuck in it too.

Nice haul of fish there. In amongst those striped fish - I imagine they are stripers or striped bass or something, I can see a couple of what we call Tailor here - i believe they are called bluefish there? Pomatomus saltatrix i think is the scientific name?

Good eating when fresh, great when smoked!

Even better, accompanied by a nice bourbon

[bassyac]

Thanks
I do not know about an anti siphon valve, I have some pictures of the tank while the boat was being built. I am going to try and size to post. The dealer gets in at 10 AM I'll ask
Blue fish 20-24lb range, pound for pound the hardest fighter
Striped-bass 1 44lb 1 41lb 1 28lb 1 22lb that was the days limit
Thanks
John

[bassyac]

Ok it does have a anti siphon valve. He took it out cleaned and placed back, also took out the pick-up tube, it does not have a screen to clog new fuel water separator. The engine ran good for 10 minutes 5500 rpms the dropped back and stalled. I ran 3900 rpms for the next hour no higher.
I do have a question how much debris does it take to clog the fuel water separator???? 1/2 a thimble 1/4 thimble whole thimble??
I replaced the separator today dumped the old one in a black pail, it looks like I was mining for silver.
On this engine, where is the fuel flow sensor, on engine or part of the boat?

[Moonlighter]

Hi John, it sounds like there was/is a heap of alloy shavings etc in that tank. It will take a bit to badly clog the filter, i would say a spoonfull would easily do it.

Pretty poor form from the manufacturer to leave it like that because it can only cause one thing. But as i said earlier, not without precedent. Really, even though its not their fault, the dealer should be/hopefully is looking after you and dealing with this at no cost to you.

Apart from opening the tank up, draining it and cleaning it out, the only thing to do is replace that in-line filter element a few more times for the next 50 hrs or so of running until no more shavings are coming thru and blocking it up. Probably, you have most of it out by now, because it will have worked its way to the back of the tank when the boat is at an angle on the plane, and so with some luck, most of it has already been sucked up and caught in that filter.

I would give it another 20 hrs on the new filtr and if it continues to run fine, change the filter then, and, if continues to run OK after that, do a final change again in another 50 hrs. You would be pretty confident that it was all gone by then.

Maybe ask your dealer to supply you with a couple of spare filter elements so you can change them when required.

The upside, if course, is that scrap aluminium is getting good prices at the moment, so you could mine the filters and sell the alloy at a profit......?

I dont know if the engines have a fuel flow sensor as such, so running out of fuel (which is essentially what is happening due to these blockages) can result in the ECU throwing MAP codes. I had a similar issue on my DF115 when i got it in 2010 and after 2 or 3 run-dry events in close proximity, thats what I got. Think it was a 3/2 code. It could show up as something like that in the log when the laptop is connected up.

If it was me, i would remove the anti-syphon valve, they are a PITA, they can clog up, or just fail without warning. If there is any shavings left in the tank, it is a prime candidate for clogging up.

We just removed one from my mates Striper, his DF300 started stalling as you came off the plane and back to idle. Removed anti-syphon valve, problem solved. Had us pondering for a while, though, and unnecessarily cost him a new primer bulb and filter element. We just punched the ball and spring out of it and left it as an open barb and reinstalled.

You could check but my understanding is that they are not actually required on outboard powered boats in the USA, only mandatory on inboards. Of couse, herevin Australia, they are unheard of in anything except imported US boats.

[Solarman]

shavings in tank

I might be inclined to look at the manufacturers label on the tank, and send them a letter of dissatisfaction for all the grief, money, filters and down time, for their lack of proper quality control, in cleaning the shavings from your tank, that this has cost you.

By noting this, and commending the dealership of all his efforts, to correct the problem, It may benefit you in the long term, if ever any particles make it past the filters and interfere with the operation of/ or damage your motor in the future.

Just a thought.

Great pics of fish from you and Grant.

[bassyac]

Thank You for all your help.
I changed the fuel filter, before going out Friday, The problem started within in 2 minutes. I am going to tell the dealer to remove the anti-siphon valve. I am not allowed, warranty, I pulled the filter and cut it open it was clean clean. He gave me 2 filters. Now I can get 3500 rpms, pull back the throttle go to WOT, sounds like I can pull a house down, then drops and stalls, if I am fast enough pulling the throttle back it does not stall. I may ask him for a couple of external tanks so I can finish the season which goes to Dec15th.
Thanks
John

[Moonlighter]

John,

It is now possible that some larger chunks may have clogged the fuel lines, probably between the tank and the filter, maybe where the line connects to the filter housing?? Or at the anti-syphon valve?? Anywhere the fuel line bends etc or joins something, a larger piece/s may have got stuck, restricting fuel flow at higher rpm.

So it may be worth asking the dealer to take the fuel line off the barb where it connects to the filter and at the tank connection (anti-syphon), and blowing back thru it with compressed air to see if that will remove any obstructions.

Hopefully, none of that rubbish has gotten thru to the fuel filtters on the engine, but I would ask the dealer to check that again too.

And all of this because the tank manufacturer has had very poor QA in their manufacturing process. Very disappointing. Takes the edge off the new boat experience, you would hope that the manufacturer is all over this problem and, as we say here in Aus, is up the tank manufacturer faster than a possum up a pole!

[bassyac]

Grant
I received no response from the dealer yesterday. I AM going to take the anti-siphon valve out today. I was told by a friend once he took it out of his new Grady, after a summer of problems similar to mine, He has gone 5 years no more problems. Is it ok to run without this Valve on a New boat? The last time I purchased a new boat was in 1975 and it did not have one. Also air pressure back into the tank, low or med or high. If I spent this much money on a New BMW they would be licking the lint off the seats, Never liked the boating mentality.
Thanks
John

[Moonlighter]

Removing the anti-syphon valve has no negative impact.

If you want to disguise the fact that it is gone, just do what we did on the Striper, unscrew and remove the valve, take it to the workbench and punch out the little ball, spring and seat from inside, and reinstall it! No-one will be able to tell from outside that the valve is now not in there.

We use a bit of stag gasket goo on the barb to help seal it properly, and any fuel hose connections below deck, we use 2 stainless hose clamps as insurance. And always go back a couple of months later and re-tighten them as they do settle in after a while.

You could blow compressed air thru the fuel hose while you are there to check for any obstructions at both ends. I wouldnt blow back into the tank, it would be better to take the hose off at both the filter end and the tank end, and blow thru it open like that. A couple of bursts of compressed air should tell you if there is anything caught in there or not. If you cant do it that way, definitely take the filler cap off, you dont want to pressurise the tank!!

Look, one other thing to check is the tank vent. Just make sure that it is nice and clear, i had some issues a couple of years ago and found a kink in the breather hose half way to the tank. Thise mud wasps like to build nests in the outlet, so check that it is not blocked there. I recall removing the hose from inside the gunwale fitting and simply boowing thru it to make sure they was clear airflow to the tank. Need to take the filler cap of, of course, otherwise you dont get far!

Good luck, i dont think you are far from sorting it out.

And, nice boat! The white Suzuki looks terrific!

They are as rare as rocking horse poo here, my local Suzuki guy has just ordered 2 x new 200 4 cylinder models in white for his own boat and they are not expected to arrive in the country until April next year......

[bassyac]

Good Day/Bad Day
I took out the anti-siphon valve, took off fuel water separator, I placed white paper towels under it and put air through all the lines, even the one going into the tank. first did it with the fuel filler cap off, then put a little air in with the cap on, I heard air coming out the vent. This boat does not have the normal type vent, it has a charcoal filter connected to the vent hose (EPA). I pulled out to the bay hit the throttles 5000rpms, 20 seconds back down to stalling/idle. The dealer thinks there may be something wrong in the tank, or some of the aluminum sludge might have gotten by the fuel water separator and into the filter on the internal tank off the high pressure pump. He can't get back on my boat till Monday. going out tonight with a portable tank. going to try that. I have a pic of the aft part of the tank when boat was being built.
Thank you for all of your help especially the not pressurizing the tank.
John

[Solarman]

fuel restrictions, due to aluminum particles

What are the possibilities that finite particles passed through the separator and are restricting flow to, or from vst to high pressure pump? If vst is restricted high pressure pump will run out of fuel after short run times.

[bassyac]

Thanks for the response
The dealer is looking into 2 items, the contamination of the VST and a possible issue inside the tank. He is picking up a boat at Proline today and getting the drawings of the tank. The reason for a tank issue I have never had less than 130 gallons of fuel till now. May be a bad baffle. The VST he changed the high pressure pump in the very beginning and all the engine filters, before he found the aluminum in the fuel water separating filter. Very frustrating