df175 loss of oil?

[artdf175]

so as redlowey mentioned check the bucket clearance
I just may buy the parts gaskets and do it myself..
the mechanic said the owners did not want to do the work if it required a major tear down. they were "too busy".. ..
simply amazing..
obviously it is not the valves with the oil use problem
so if, indeed the valves are out of speck, is it one of those things where if something is not working correctly it is creating a problem someplace else?

so I have a few more things to do.. I will have all winter to work on it though..

[boats.net]

Have dealer run a cylinder leak down test to see if getting past rings.

[artdf175]

Have dealer run a cylinder leak down test to see if getting past rings.

After running the motor.. where the plugs came in black
this is the test results

Compression test results should be up around 180 psi minimum
Leak-down test results should be in the 10%-15% range.

1 -- 140 psi 60% (Exhaust sound)
2 -- 130 psi 35% (Vent hose pressure)
3 -- 120 psi 80% (Exhaust sound)
4 -- 160 psi 30% (Exhaust noise / vent hose pressure)

The exhaust leak on 1 / 3 / 4 could be from carbon build up.
Just finished doing compression test. Minor improvement.

today.. sent me this note after running yahmaha internal engine cleaner through it yesterday
After treatment
1 -- 145 psi
2 -- 145 psi
3 -- 125 psi
4 -- 160 psi
Looks to me like you are in line for a tear down. It's my "guess" that number 3 has a burnt exhaust valve
====
the mechanic told me the "owner" did not want to do the tear down.. explanation "too busy" .. I find that amazing..
so that is where I stand..
I may find I need a few more tools in the tool box..
As I told my best friend..what is the downside?? a new engine..?
I didn't really want to tackle this but I have all winter to work on it if I have to..

[artdf175]

repair manaual

found site Genuine Suzuki Manuals

they have a manaul for df175 --middle digits -96J02-
Service Manual (99500-96J02-01E) - $80.00 (497+ pages)

I see the -96J03- was an updated version of -96J01- edition
can you see any reason not to use the -96J02- version?

Art..

I use the Suzuki Manual, Suzuki Outboard 99500-96J03-01E DF150 / DF175 Service Manual - Browns Point Marine Service, LLC
I'm not familiar with SELOC

[artdf175]

Picked up led light to look at top cylinders
Probably 1/2 hour or so running
Plugs clean a bit of dry carbon dust on top of metal plug center off color white as expected
More important top of piston dry with a small amount of patchy carbon build up cleaner did not fully remove

Dip stick is maybe down 1/16 inch from full mark

[Harper]

found site Genuine Suzuki Manuals

they have a manaul for df175 --middle digits -96J02-
Service Manual (99500-96J02-01E) - $80.00 (497+ pages)

I see the -96J03- was an updated version of -96J01- edition
can you see any reason not to use the -96J02- version?

Art..

Hi Art,

The 96J03 is what they're selling now at Brown's Point, and I'm sure it just covers the newer motors. The one that I have is actually 96J01 and covers up to and including the '08 model years of the DF150 and DF175 (my 150 is an '07). So I'm sure the 96J02 will be just fine.

Your next post sounds encouraging. I guess you ran that 1/2 hour or so at a higher RPM? Sounds like the treatment has helped a lot. Maybe another round of treatment and oil change and you'll be good to go. I hope that's the case.

[artdf175]

Mike thank you
I sent a note of to "genuine Suzuki manuals" and they are looking into the difference -awaiting final answer -
I am thinking that the 96J03, that you have, may cover both the 150 and 175 and I think I saw a note about the J03 updated some part numbers.. However, when I searched for the 150 their manual had a different book number.. will let you know what they tell me. Also their cost of the book is $80 vs $140 through Browns Point.

I sent that note from my Iphone.. it is a very difficult task..
but I was very pleased when I could see in and found no oil on the top of the piston head.
yes, the run down the river is maybe 20 minutes one way, and ran it around 4000-4200 rpm .. on the way back up the river ran it at 5000 rpm for maybe 5 minutes of the run..
and one correction.. I re-checked the oil level and it was unchanged.. right at the full mark.. so there was no loss of oil.. at least for this trip..
I am thinking, as edlowery was pointing to --a ring problem and just maybe the engine cleaner may have taken care of that..
--
two things left to check 1) compression check and leak down.. and 2) valve lash. my current book indicates the valves should be checked @ 200 hours
why the mechanic didn't offer to check the valves, after the test results he found, is beyond me..
I will not be going back to this guy.. but with regards to the engine cleaner, I was told it was not for retail sale.
in checking online about ring problems there was mention of a product called Resolve-- and also Seafoam.. used as oil treatments to clean rings..
Any experience with these products?

do you have a favorite site for ordering parts? i.e. gaskets and maybe valve shims, if in fact I do find they need adjusting..
Thanks again..
Art.........

[Harper]

Hi Art,
You misread which edition of the manual that I have. I have the 96J01, which I said covers the model years up to 2008 on the DF150 and DF175. Actually, I was technically incorrect to state that, since the 96J01 covers the '07 and '08 model years of the two engines. But since these engines didn't come out until 2006, I don't think it would matter.

The official Suzuki Service Manual (whichever edition) as far as I know, will cover both the DF150 and DF175. The only significant difference in the power heads is that the 175 has variable valve timing. Otherwise, the motors are the same and maintenance procedures and parts are the same. So the 96J02 that you are considering ought to cover both the DF150 and DF175, and should cover your 2006.

As far as use of Seafoam.....I've used it in my truck, but haven't had the need to do the outboard. With your latest run with no oil use, I wouldn't consider any more treatment, at least not just now. You seem to have freed up the rings. But you still do need to check the bucket clearance, to help prevent any further burning of the valves. By the way, in case you don't understand fully what burning a valve means, it's the mating (or sealing) surface on the valve that gets burned with inadequate cooling.....the beveled edge that seals against the valve seat when the valve closes. It is the thinnest part of the valve head and for reasons I mentioned earlier, is the part that will suffer damage if the bucket clearance is too tight.

I am not familiar with Resolve. As far as where to purchase parts, Brown's Point is reliable, but they are more expensive than some other online sources. This site, Boats.net also has parts, but I find that some parts aren't listed, and have also run up against their listing of parts that are obsolete and no longer available, only to find out a week or two later when they don't ship, then finally answer my query, they cancel my order (they've never charged me for an unfilled order, however). I've bought parts from Hustler Sports View B25 DF150-175 2006-2011 at http://www.hustlersport.com and also from Performance Product Technologies Mercruiser Parts, Marine Engines, Mercury Outboard Parts, Exhausts | Performance Product Technologies

Both of these last two have the best prices that I've found, and both are responsive to inquiries if you have trouble locating a part on their websites.

[Harper]

Well hell, Art, I just wrote an answer to your questions. It was a long post, but now the soopermoderator wants to review it first. That could take weeks, considering past performance. If it doesn't come up later, guess I'll find another way to answer your questions. Stand by......

[artdf175]

Well hell, Art, I just wrote an answer to your questions. It was a long post, but now the soopermoderator wants to review it first. That could take weeks, considering past performance. If it doesn't come up later, guess I'll find another way to answer your questions. Stand by......

private message??? let me send you my email address
art

[artdf175]

here is the other photo I wanted to attach
however it is not really clear.. iphone would not focus on piston head
but needless to say it shows a bit of carbon build up and a dry surface
art.

[artdf175]

Mike the manual arrived this morning 99500-96J02-01E
covers DF150/175 motors K6 (2006) K7 K8 K10
indicated this manual is compiled on 2006 (K6) model

was there no K9??? did they take the year off or something during the recession??

cost was as advertised $80 with shipping/handling $91.23
very competitive price as compared to couple other places I looked

Thanks.. now the work really starts..
Art......


]Hi Art,

The 96J03 is what they're selling now at Brown's Point, and I'm sure it just covers the newer motors. The one that I have is actually 96J01 and covers up to and including the '08 model years of the DF150 and DF175 (my 150 is an '07). So I'm sure the 96J02 will be just fine.

Your next post sounds encouraging. I guess you ran that 1/2 hour or so at a higher RPM? Sounds like the treatment has helped a lot. Maybe another round of treatment and oil change and you'll be good to go. I hope that's the case.[/QUOTE]

[Harper]

was there no K9??? did they take the year off or something during the recession??

Yeah, that's a puzzler. Could be that there were no changes made for the one year, so K8 covers '08 and '09. All the changes have been very minor, anyway.

[artdf175]

Red.. finally got a chance to work on motor..
went to check oil pressure and found need an extension for the oil pressure sensor fitting.. I didn't find what size thread will fit .. do you have any idea what size ..
==oil on pistoin head.. after warming up the motor for 5 minutes and then removing plug to check cylinder PSI the #3 piston head was wet.. first time I have seen this.. plugs all came out clean.. just very small amount of carbon dust on exposed end of plug where it screws into head..

may have to return my PSI checker . the gauge is reading about 30 lbs low when I attach to my air pressure hose.. however taking the readings and adding 30 lbs to it I came up with these readings last night
90 - 90 - 80 - 105
doing a leak down test after taking valve cover off. could not get any readings.. heard air leaking intake manifold would be best guess
"bucket clearance"
intake valves all were all off
Intake. .009 to .011 should be in this range
#1. .008 & .004
#2. .000. & .000 direct contact..
#3 .003 & .0025
#4. .003 & .003

Exhaust .012-.013 in this range
#1. .008. .009
#2. .010. .011
#3. .011 .011
#4 .009. .009
so.. what problems should I be looking for with no or minimal intake valve clearance?
I am beginning to think multiple problems
carboned up valves that will not allow to close properly
rings that were not seated correctly

your thoughts please..
Art..

The reason I wanted you to check the oil pressure is because high oil pressure will create more splash from the crank journals and the rings cant wipe the excess oil off the walls of the cyls. 2 When oil gets past the rings if it does not get burnt in the combustion chamber it sits in top of the piston just in from the ring lands, and gets blown out past the exhaust valve, wipe inside the prop and surrounding area with your finger I bet it is black and oily. 3 You said in your earlier post compression was down and you could hear exhaust valves leaking, well what do you think would happen if there was no clearance between the cam lobe and the valve, valve clearance is critical. A blocked breather would make it use oil but also it would push oil out of your front and rear seal. Pull the cam cover off and check the bucket clearance, if your mechanic has not heard the term bucket clearance I think he must work on old O.V.H engines.

[redlowrey]

Get the valve clearances right and check the compressions again, don't be surprised that this engine might settle down if it has not started to burn. Valves. The thread on the oil pressure switch will be either eighth or quarter gas.