Fuel in engine oil

[Peter Werner]

Good news. Suzuki has authorized the replacement of the "Power Head" (i.e. short block), with support of Suzuki technician. Will try to get feedback as to root-cause analysis for others to have knowledge. I am quite confident that I operated engine well within reasonable criteria. Thanks all for feedback. Pete

[WEDOCQ]

***, good news, bad news. I haven't looked at this thread in a while and was hoping when I clicked to the end things would be settled. Good luck!
-Shawn

[Peter Werner]

Far from over. They (Suzuki tech & dealer) ran into trouble last week installing new "Short Block". They don't tell me anything - other than it won't be done until mid-next week. They also indicated they don't want me on board (my own boat) during break-in running with new SB.

When asked about likely root-cause they indicate initial cold running. Also that engines are applied in a wide range of surface-water-temps. Engine was deliverd with a lower temp thermostat, and never ran above 143F during the first 20 hours - until they decided to change it to the higher temp stat - and it than ran @ 173F. However - he said the first stat was the correct one!!?? I'm located in far northwest Washington stae - in very cold water. They have me completely confused, disappointed, and very uncomfortable. I'm not happy with Suzuki right now.

[Carpenter]

They probably don't want you with so they can run the shit out of it and seat the rings properly. They will not drive it consistent with the owners manual. They will run it in a manner that is more reliable for sealing the rings. Great for you cause if they break it its on them. No synthetic for a while.

Please let us all know how it turns out.

[Peter Werner]

Thanks Carpenter. Just got word (had to call them) that they can't get a start with new Short Block. Turns over, has spark & fuel - no start. Hope it's not valve timing? Not my problem - other than getting the job done. Still don't understand their discussion relative to thermostat / temp issues. Engine never ran above 143F for the first 20 hours - and they knew it. Put higher temp thermostats in @ ~ 22 hours - then ran @ 173F. They say that the initial thermostats were correct. Not sure why they need that much temperature-margin for effective cooling - but if they do - I'd think they would want the hi-temp stats for cold water - and the lo-temp stats for warmer waters.? And - for initial running - we ran at hi-rpm and load for prop verification. Proped @ too hi of pitch @ first - once propped correctly, ran at/near 6000 RPM for extended periods. If my initial operation profile was problematic - they have a seriously fussy engine - not likely to get any recommendations from me!!! Pete

[Peter Werner]

PS: It was their decision to move to the higher temps stats. Wonder why they don't run the blocks in on a test-stand prior to final assembly?? As an industrial control engineer - we supplied many engine test stands for engine and vehicle manufacturers - seems like Suzuki is shipping potentially problematic product. Pete

[Carpenter]

Pete: I am not an expert. This is my point of view worth about.02 cents. Thermastats are /may be a factor. Probably a smoke screen as to what they may really be worried about. I have ben thinking about your problem. IF your original issue of rising oil levels is coused by blowby of the rings than I would say the wurst thing you can do with a new engine is lots of idle or lugging it as over proping will do. You said something to the effect that the engine can't be that fussy. They can be. Thats why all the talk about breakin. Cat, Cummins, John Deere, all of them worry about breakin. Posts/ issues like yours go on into eternity. I havbe heard for decades that Cat would introduce large amounts of "Bon Ammi " an abrasive into new engines that failed to seal or where glazed with great success.

Consumers and competition push the munufacturers of things like outboards to run the raggad edge of consumer reliabillity on issues like yours. Maybe the fact that boats don't have Multiple forward speads ,transmissions, complicates things.

Is one failure in one hundred two many ? One thousand? Two thousand?
Try to give Suzuki the time that a big clumsy company needs to work things out.

I think the dealer should cover you if Suzuki does not. If the dealer cant cover you than they should stop selling Suzuki or Yamaha or Honda or whatever.

[redlowrey]

What you are saying is right, but it is for sealing the rings with the cylinder wall to stop oil getting past them into the combustion chamber and blowing smoke.

[Carpenter]

Redlowry: I agree. I have never heard of any engine in any machine making oil or ther sump leval rising from anything other than Leaking fuel, or oil from another source such as the power steering or gear case or power trim or water entering the crankcase. Not from blow by.

[Peter Werner]

Thanks Carpenter - appreciate your common sense feedback. The work has been done - new "short block" - back in the water last Wed (03/13). Weather here in NW WA better for skiing - not boating - so have not yet taken for hard running as requested by Suzuki. I understand how low initial operating temps can cause cylinders to glaze. Suzuki has two thermostats. (standard/shipped ~140F & optional ~170F, for cold water applications). The stat in now is 170F. Not sure why they don't pay more attention to where their product is going and provide the optional 170F stats for cold water apps like this?!! It has cost them and me a lot. Also - not sure why they need that much temperature margin between surface water temp & desired engine temp. Thanks for all your feedback - will keep you informed. Pete

[Egorena]

Too much bad info.! Temp has nothing to do with this problem. One reply hit it on the head of the nail. The only place that raw gasoline has a a chance to go into the crank case is at the low pressure diaphram pump. To refutiate the raw gas in cylinder theory, this is not happening. This would have caused a cylinder wash down and the engine would have siezed up! The lower pressure pump is driven by one of the camshafts through the valve cover. This is the only place I can think of that would cause this problem. If under waranty, they should fix that for you. If not, it will take you ten minutes to change the diaphram. Good luck!

[Harper]

Egorena, funny you should start your post with the arrogant declaration of "too much bad information," when you, yourself are posting bad information. It's already been posted (and you might want to do a little research yourself before exposing your ignorance) that the low pressure fuel pump on the DF300 model is an electric pump, not the diaphram pump found on the smaller DF150-175 and smaller engines. Therefore your theory about how fuel got into the crankcase is totally in error.

[Peter Werner]

Harper, You are correct - believe that was your post ~ 12/31 - Thanks

[Peter Werner]

Big bag this week-end! Weather allowed boat run at reasonable break-in speeds. Engine blew while getting up on plane - about 10 minutes of operation. Blew components through the engine cover - will need a saw to get the cover off. Initial feedback this AM is that Suzuki will be shipping a complete new engine this week.

[Peter Werner]

Cover removed. Crank-end of connecting rod thrown through cylinder and engine cowling. Suzuki has agreed to replace complete outboard. Not sure when - problems within organization making it difficult to expedite. Sooo - "FUEL IN CRANKCASE" thread no longer viable.