DF 2.5 questions

[JRDIII]

Hi folks. I am new on here. Just bought a brand new DF 2.5s for my inflatable Sea Eagle SE9 for fishing. I've used it three times. The first two times I took it real easy for the break in, mostly idling, trolling and running at low throttle. It works alright, but pushing an inflatable through the water is like pushing a mattress. Here are my observations and questions so far. Sorry for the long post. Any help would be appreciated.

- First time out, it ran like a dream. Started on second pull. I never opened up the throttle, and ran it about five hours. Second time out I opened up the throttle a bit more, but immediately noticed an issue. Even after what I thought was ample idling time for the engine to get warm, opening the throttle at all while in gear would cause the motor to stall. I could usually save it by quickly dethrottling back to idle, but it was very difficult to get the rpms up while in gear. Only by babying it repeatedly could I get it to rev up. Once I did, after running for a while in gear, it seemed to work a lot better. Question: is this a) normal, in the sense that it just takes a long time to get this engine warmed up?, b) a clogged jet (already?), or c) bad gas (I tried a different brand of gas, 93 octane, and added some Sea Foam, but it hasn't made any difference)?

- I bought this motor because I was told by a Sea Eagle rep that 2.5 hp would be adequate, I read good things about it, I could afford it, and it is super light (30 lbs.). The max the boat will take is 4hp, and because it has a displacement hull, it's going to go the same speed (5 mph max) no matter the size of the motor. It is still much faster than the trolling motor I was using previously. Still, I worry that I might damage the motor because of the strain of pushing an inflatable. Is that a legitimate concern? It actually seems to push the Sea Eagle better with someone sitting in the front, as opposed to just me in the back. Judging the propeller depth is difficult. With no one on the boat, the cavitation plate is right at the surface of the water. But when I put my 210 lbs. on the rear seat it drops four or five inches under water. I think this may be adding to the strain, so I am going to try raising the transom a couple of inches to see if that helps smooth things out.

- This morning I hooked the motor to a trash can and started it. I noticed no water coming out of the pee hole, so I immediately shut it off. Everything looked normal on the lower unit, so I unscrewed the pee hole plug and found a tiny piece of what appeared to be black plastic debris (about half the size of a grain of rice) blocking the hole. After I replaced the plug and started the engine, everything worked fine. Questions: How did this debris get in the pee hole? Isn't there a screen on the impeller that is supposed to keep this stuff out? My concern is that it could it have come from somewhere internal, i.e., something broken. Any thoughts on this? I used the boat all day yesterday, but never noticed any issue. The water discharge was working fine, but I don't think I looked at it during my last run back to the boat dock where I ran it full throttle for probably 15 minutes. If it was blocked during that time, could I have done some damage through overheating? If so, would that be apparent? It seems to be working fine right now.

Thanks in advance for any input on these issues.

[keakar]

as for the debris you found its likely its just leftover from assembly that finally worked its way thru the engine passages, a small bit of rubber hose or a bit of the water pump impellar that came loose, nothing i would be concerned over unless you continue to find it.

as to the intake screen, its big enough for sand to go thru but small enough to block anything bigger then that. the grill you see on the lower unit IS the filter screen so you can clean it if it gets blocked.

as for the questions of the motor running, is it 4 stroke or 2 stroke? if 2 stroke your oil/gas mixture could be wrong,

as for the balanced load questions just put EVERYTHING in the front most part of the craft, and i mean everything. this will simulate the balance of having 2 people and it will ride better without messing with the transom or trim.

[JRDIII]

Thanks for the reply. FYI, it's a four-stroke so there shouldn't be any issue with the gas mixture. I found a couple of other posts where owners of small Suzuki 4-strokes were having the same issue. Responses suggested a clogged carb jet, but I just can't believe an engine with 10 hours on it already has a clogged jet. Someone who owned a European model was having the same problem and said it was due to EU emission standards restricting the intake. His mechanic actually bored the intake out a bit and he said it now runs great. I don't know if my DF2.5 has the same carb as the European model, but I'm definitely not ready to start boring holes in my carburetor.

I didn't know the vent holes at the bottom of the lower unit were the impeller screen. If that's the case, then this piece of plastic could have been sucked in. It was that small. I guess I'll just need to keep a closer eye on the pee hole while it's running.

[Symore]

Same problem

Hello,new member here. I found this post while trying to find a solution to the same problem as JRDIII
( First time out, it ran like a dream. Started on second pull. I never opened up the throttle, and ran it about five hours. Second time out I opened up the throttle a bit more, but immediately noticed an issue. Even after what I thought was ample idling time for the engine to get warm, opening the throttle at all while in gear would cause the motor to stall. I could usually save it by quickly dethrottling back to idle, but it was very difficult to get the rpms up while in gear. Only by babying it repeatedly could I get it to rev up. Once I did, after running for a while in gear, it seemed to work a lot better).
I use my 2.5 outboard to power my 15ft. canoe. This must not be an isolated problem. Any advice on how to fix this, I will drill out the intake but I just do not know exactly where it is.

[JRDIII]

Apparently it is a common problem. After doing some additional research, I don't think the post I read about drilling out the intake actually meant that the intake was enlarged. I think what he meant was that you have to drill out a welded brad on the carb housing so you can access the carb adjustment screw. The carb adjustment screw is on the front side of the carb, next to the air intake, but it's sealed by a welded brad. That's what you have to drill out - to get to the screw. There's actually a YouTube video of some Russian guys doing this exact procedure. If your motor is still under warranty I wouldn't mess with it. I took mine in to the repair shop last week and they said if there are any carb issues the warranty will take care of it. Haven't heard back from them but I'll post a follow-up when I get it back and they tell me the cause of the problem.

[keakar]

here is something like he was describing, its from a motorcycle rejetting info but you get the idea of whats involved to get access to it.

How to rejet

[JRDIII]

Yes, that's how you do it. Note, however, that on the DF 2.5 the setting of the mixture screw is different, not 3.5 turns. If I'm not mistaken, I think the manual tells you how far the screw should be opened.

[Symore]

JRDIII, Thank you for the update. Looking forward to seeing your follow up. You will be the first one to post with the cause and fix for this problem. I live in N.J. and use my motor in the back bay area. Mine is also under warrenty but i would like to try and fix it myself if it is not to difficult. It has been an issue for me since I bought the motor last summer. Hopefully this is just a minor problem.

[keakar]

the screw under the plug is the pms (primary mixture screw) which feeds gas to the engine at idle before the throttle is opened. once the butterfly opens the pms looses vaccum and no more gas is pulled through it.

because of this i really doubt messing with it will solve anything, most likely it is something else. offhand it sounds to me as though the main jet or if it has them the needle jets could be blockled. this may have happened if the motor was tested then not all the gas was removed before it was crated and the remaining gas formed varnish as it dried which was softened up at the initial running after you bought it when everything ran fine.

the guy who fixed his by boring out the intake must have been getting too much gas so adding more air fixed it. certainly this was not a situation that changed from the initial running so he must have had issues with his right out of the crate or an improper float setting or stuck float needle that wouldnt seal.

shut off the gas flow to the carb and if the motor runs better you know its a flooding problem and if it doesnt then its not enough gas as in blocked jets in the carb.


looking here: http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Su...TOR/parts.html

the carb has a screw on cap #16 covering the pms screw #15 so it doesnt need drilling out at all based on the image. also there are 3 jets to clean out and make sure there are no blockages, they are #2 #3 & #4 so first i would take them out and pay extra attention to part #2 it has a hole through the middle and in the sides and very often its the holes in the sides that get blocked up.

[Symore]

Keakar, Thanks for your input on this. It is my understanding that it would be a lack of gas causing this. You are correct about the jets might be clogged but its odd that there are more than one or two with the same problem. I thought I read somewhere last year that because of emissions the fuel was restricted. Someone posted that their mechanic drilled out a fuel intake orifice and it ran great after that. I wish I could find that post but I cant locate it. And I do not know exactly what was drilled out. Hopefully JRDIII will be able to isolate this problem and it is something as simple as clearing a clogged jet.

[keakar]

what he might have done is drill out the intake port if it wasnt as wide open as the bore of the body but im just guessing there.

as to it being a common problem, if its a testing related issue such as gas residue left in the carbs then that would be a common issue on most all of them

now remember the fact that the motor ran fine at first tells you it was working out of the crate so it shouldnt need any modifying to fix it or it would have had issues at the very first startup

[JRDIII]

keakar, thank you for your analysis. Seems very logical to me on all counts.

The story took a new twist today. The shop manager called me to say he had some bad news. Turns out after I dropped off the motor, one of the junior mechanics took it to the shop and laid it on a blanket on the ground, wrong side up. So when the manager went to test the motor the cylinder had oil in it. He fully acknowledged the screw up and apologized that the motor had been laid down wrong side up. I could have gotten mad and said I was coming to get the motor to take it somewhere else, but the truth is the shop is 20 miles away and I just want to get the motor fixed. It's the only shop within 50 miles that services Suzuki and they otherwise get really positive reviews. Plus, he was honest about the screw up and said they would fix it. He said it wasn't a big deal at all and just required some clean-up, so I'm letting them try to make good.

He also said I had overfilled it with oil, which is probably true. The manual says to fill the oil until it reaches the upper limit in the window. After looking at the manual again I think I may have misinterpreted the upper limit as being the top of the window, when it really should be a step lower. I assumed after running the engine, it would level off back to the middle range, but it never did. He seemed to think that might be a contributing factor to the problem. I just hope it didn't cause a more serious problem. He was going to clean up the oil in the cylinder, change out the oil and refill to the proper level, and change the plug. He seemed to think that would do the trick, but said if it didn't work he'd have to take the carb apart. I don't know. Like keakar, I suspect the solution to the problem is going to be in one of the carb jets, so I guess we'll see. Hopefully I will hear from him tomorrow and will let you know.

[Symore]

[QUOTE=now remember the fact that the motor ran fine at first tells you it was working out of the crate so it shouldnt need any modifying to fix it or it would have had issues at the very first startup[/QUOTE]
My motor started and ran good at idle during the break in run that is described in the manual the first time running the motor. But the stalling and hesitation when giving it throttle was always there.

Someone in another forum awhile ago posted that their mechanic checked the carb and found nothing but after changing the spark plug it ran good. I havent tried anything yet because it was still breaking in. Hopefully whatever is wrong with JRDIII's motor will explain what this problem is. Might be just a really simple fix because it is a new motor.

JRDIII I have my oil filled just below the top of the site window too. Maybe that has something to do with the problem. It is my fear that I will lay the motor down on the wrong side while transporting it in my jeep. Very easy thing to do when in a hurry or in the dark. You can use this as a learning exsperence and find out how to drain the oil out yourself if it happens again.

[keakar]

My motor started and ran good at idle during the break in run that is described in the manual the first time running the motor. But the stalling and hesitation when giving it throttle was always there.

ok thats where i keep losing you, when you say "ran fine" that means to me you ran it full throttle and had no issues so thats why i kept going back to that.

if it always had issues then that changes everything and it could easily be jetted wrong which would explain what that guy drilled that had success by doing his "shade tree mechanic" work on his motor with a drill.

my guess is they are using the same carb on several different motors and for this motor they just went with way too small a jet in it.

if you can find out the size drill bit he used to drill out his jet then you can buy the correct sized jet. jets cost $10-$15 so they arent expensive and why i dont recommend drilling yours unless you have no choice.

home drilled jets have uneven and often misdirected fuel flow (like some faucets where the water comes out crooked) and even thou the engine seams it runs ok, it would run better and probably with better fuel economy if it were manufactured that way.

if you cant find out the bit he used you will have to do it yourself. find a really small drill bit set and find the drill bit the size of your jet now and drill out the jet one size bigger each time untill you find the correct size. its obvious but i'll say it anyway, never drill the jet in the carb, remove it and drill it on the work bench (a block of wood with a small hole the threads fit snuggly into works great for this sinch you never put brass in a vise)

once you find the size where it just starts to run ok, then go buy the jet size one more size bigger then the drill bit to ensure the engine isnt running too lean.

[Symore]

Keabar you know what you are talking about. I had a two stroke dirt bike that wasent jetted correctly for my region (just above sea level) and installed a better exhuast on it. I had to try different jet combinations untill the right main and idle jet were found and it ran perfect after that. It makes sense that Suzuki would use the same carb for different motors with different size jets. I am guessing you are talking about the main jet that needs to be opened or sized up.